No Pain, No Gain?, Double bass - the King of Pain... Options

[TPJ]

Loud drummer resulted in a complete lack of finesse on my part and the complete loss of any technique worth speaking of The realisation that, now the honeymoon period is over, I have a mountain to climb to get to the level I want to achieve. Not that I am shying away from that climb; its nothing more that a moment of pathos...

Loud anything seems to kill my technique as well. It's too easy to start playing hard to try and be heard. The result is usually the opposite in my case as my bass will choke out and volume goes. I'm trying to keep a mind set of "just play normally". If they ask me to turn up, laugh and tell them to turn down

[bob_pickard]

Well, inspired by all you lot I've just bought Old Slappers EUB and I'm going to convert to acoustic Upright in my 50's Rock and Roll band.

I've now gone from "how hard can it be?!" when I got it last week to errrm "oh....pretty hard then!" already have blisters on my right hand fingers from a couple of hours practice over the weekend but I'm slowly getting to grips with the scale - as mentioned before it's very strange though going from playing lines without even thinking (gazing around the room etc) to really struggling to get anywhere - I will do it though and we've twenty gigs lined up at the mo so I can jump in whenever I feel ready - seems a long way off at the mo.

Just bought some weedwackers to see what they're like and see if they're any better for the rock and rolly slap type thing I'm trying - hopefully easier than the cheesegraters I'm using at the mo - or maybe I'm being a wimp.

Anyway the plan is to get used to the scale and get started on the EUB then after a final gig with my other band at the end of July sell all my PA equiment, stands, lights etc and get myself a decent acoustic.

So lot of pain at the minute and not much gain except for a tiny few sparks where I could just see what things might turn into.....

[TPJ]

Well, inspired by all you lot I've just bought Old Slappers EUB and I'm going to convert to acoustic Upright in my 50's Rock and Roll band.

I've now gone from "how hard can it be?!" when I got it last week to errrm "oh....pretty hard then!" already have blisters on my right hand fingers from a couple of hours practice over the weekend but I'm slowly getting to grips with the scale - as mentioned before it's very strange though going from playing lines without even thinking (gazing around the room etc) to really struggling to get anywhere - I will do it though and we've twenty gigs lined up at the mo so I can jump in whenever I feel ready - seems a long way off at the mo.

Just bought some weedwackers to see what they're like and see if they're any better for the rock and rolly slap type thing I'm trying - hopefully easier than the cheesegraters I'm using at the mo - or maybe I'm being a wimp.

Anyway the plan is to get used to the scale and get started on the EUB then after a final gig with my other band at the end of July sell all my PA equiment, stands, lights etc and get myself a decent acoustic.

So lot of pain at the minute and not much gain except for a tiny few sparks where I could just see what things might turn into.....

Stick with it, well worth the effort.

[thisnameistaken]

Stick with it, well worth the effort.

+1.

I'm trying to learn how to bow at the moment, I've found it's a great test of the patience of my neighbours.

[Bilbo]

+1.

I'm trying to learn how to bow at the moment, I've found it's a great test of the patience of my neighbours.

[OutToPlayJazz]

+1.

I'm trying to learn how to bow at the moment, I've found it's a great test of the patience of my neighbours.

Are you having lessons at the moment? If not, I can always pop up to York and help you out for an hour - I'm dropping into York for some consultancy work quite a bit at the moment.

[thisnameistaken]

Are you having lessons at the moment? If not, I can always pop up to York and help you out for an hour - I'm dropping into York for some consultancy work quite a bit at the moment.

No, the guy I was hoping would give me some lessons seems to be too busy. And to be honest so am I at the moment. I do need lessons though and I may send you a PM next month some time though if things slow down a bit.

Cheers.

[OutToPlayJazz]

No, the guy I was hoping would give me some lessons seems to be too busy. And to be honest so am I at the moment. I do need lessons though and I may send you a PM next month some time though if things slow down a bit.

Cheers.

You're welcome anytime, mate

[Bilbo]

Did a lot of DB practice yesterday and then a gig on electric bass. Feeling a bit sore today, handswise, like when you have been shifting bricks all day!!

[Greydad]

Did a lot of DB practice yesterday and then a gig on electric bass. Feeling a bit sore today, handswise, like when you have been shifting bricks all day!!

I'm playing DB at least 3 nights a week and the old hands do ache a bit sometimes but apart from the mutant right index finger (still somewhat larger than the left index finger) the bit of my anatomy that seems to take the heaviest bass playing load is my left pinkie - main pinkie knuckle joint seems to be tested quite a lot so I need to work on using the other fingers to help it out a bit (yes, Greg, just like you told me). Good news is my left hand span has increased noticeably at full stretch, bad news is when I play electric now the stretch is more than the old 4-frets worth so I keep going past and missing the top one LOL. Must re-train brain...

[TPJ]

... the bit of my anatomy that seems to take the heaviest bass playing load is my left pinkie

Mine resembles a chup chup with the callus that's on the end

Bilbo, how do you find it switching between DB and electric?

[Bilbo]

I don't practice the electric bass at all at the moment but feel completely natural playing it. I don't find I am inadvertently transferring fingering spacing from the DB to the Wal. What I have noticed is that I am more focussed on my intonation on electric than I was before and I was pretty much nailing it then so that's a good thing.

[jakesbass]

I'm playing DB at least 3 nights a week and the old hands do ache a bit sometimes but apart from the mutant right index finger (still somewhat larger than the left index finger) the bit of my anatomy that seems to take the heaviest bass playing load is my left pinkie - main pinkie knuckle joint seems to be tested quite a lot so I need to work on using the other fingers to help it out a bit (yes, Greg, just like you told me). Good news is my left hand span has increased noticeably at full stretch, bad news is when I play electric now the stretch is more than the old 4-frets worth so I keep going past and missing the top one LOL. Must re-train brain...

Hi Greydad,
Seems like you're getting lessons so I don't want to intervene so I have this suggestion, put it by your teacher and if it fits in with his thinking then all good.
Slow all practice down to a quarter of the speed that you normally would play, make all the movements you make small but slow and take the time to see that you are making movements correctly.
The reason:
when you play things that you already know there is a tendency to play them just as you do, if this is giving rise to pain then that should be looked at. All fingers should be down with the little finger whenever it stops a note, if you do the slow thing you will make the movements that get your little finger supported part of your day, it's then and only then that it will seep into your playing in a performance situation.

It's called undoing bad habits and it takes time and patience... slowly slowly catchee monkey.

Jake

[Greydad]

Hi Greydad,
Seems like you're getting lessons so I don't want to intervene so I have this suggestion, put it by your teacher and if it fits in with his thinking then all good.
Slow all practice down to a quarter of the speed that you normally would play, make all the movements you make small but slow and take the time to see that you are making movements correctly.
The reason:
when you play things that you already know there is a tendency to play them just as you do, if this is giving rise to pain then that should be looked at. All fingers should be down with the little finger whenever it stops a note, if you do the slow thing you will make the movements that get your little finger supported part of your day, it's then and only then that it will seep into your playing in a performance situation.

It's called undoing bad habits and it takes time and patience... slowly slowly catchee monkey.

Jake

Hi Jake, yep, I realise my little pinkie needs assistance so I'm working on that and yes it's time I had another lesson!! I've worked out the little finger issue is down to trying to stretch too much (like on an electric) instead of moving my whole hand to where it needs to be so I'll try and make some time to work on that and play everything slowly as you suggest - makes a lot of sense.

My main problem is that recently I've rarely practiced as such and haven't had time to get back to Greg for another lesson, I'm just playing live all the time (every night this week) so it's all at breakneck speed LOL. Maybe I need to take time out and review where I'm at.

Great fun this double bass stuff, though! I love it

[thisnameistaken]

My main problem is that recently I've rarely practiced as such and haven't had time to get back to Greg for another lesson, I'm just playing live all the time (every night this week) so it's all at breakneck speed LOL.

Haha you star! That is awesome.

Great fun this double bass stuff, though! I love it

Same here I pretty much never pick up a BG at home any more. I still haven't gigged it though. I need to sort out my amplified sound before I gig indoors, and I need to make sure my intonation is effortless when I play outdoors because I'm singing harmony at the same time as playing reggae parts. I think next week we'll start busking, got a rehearsal tomorrow to finalise the set we'll be working from.

[Greydad]

Haha you star! That is awesome.

Same here I pretty much never pick up a BG at home any more. I still haven't gigged it though. I need to sort out my amplified sound before I gig indoors, and I need to make sure my intonation is effortless when I play outdoors because I'm singing harmony at the same time as playing reggae parts. I think next week we'll start busking, got a rehearsal tomorrow to finalise the set we'll be working from.

No, not a star and hardly brilliant, just mostly simple stuff, but there ain't many double bassists out here and people do really seem to like it. It would be nice to think one day I'll be getting gigs because I'm good rather than because I'm the only double bass player around for miles

My intonation is not always right although it's ok most of the time now as far as I go and in theory should get better the more playing I do, hence the desire to do all the gigs and stuff I can. Jakes right though I should slow down and practice more. And go see Greg for more lessons.

I'm doing a lot of acoustic-only playing in pubs and clubs, so most of the time not using any amplification - much simpler, so much less hassle. I have played my BG a bit more recently to keep my hand in and I still enjoy it but it doesn't grab me in quite the same way it used to do. Rather than trying to fit double bass into the type of music I was playing on electric bass I went off in search of a more sympathetic environment so changed musical styles so I could get playing quickly, hence the folk and bluegrass focus rather than rock etc. I've played some blues as well, that sounds quite good along with an acoustic guitarist. I've forced myself into several regular folk jam sessions which is another easy way to get playing and learn new stuff - I've found a double bass is always sympathetically received at these.

I'm impressed you can sing as well as play - never got the hang of that, but would love to be able to do it. If I try to sing when I play bass I just fall over.

[thisnameistaken]

Well I still have a gig on bass guitar playing ska/punk originals (but we don't sound how you might imagine - we're often more reggae or hip-hop than we are ska or "punk" [that word's fairly meaningless these days isn't it]) so I do still play BG and I enjoy it, I just don't bother at home.

Funnily enough the gig I'm rehearsing for on DB is what the above guitarist and drummer originally hired me for over a year ago on bass guitar - doing a lot of old '60s Jamaican pop tunes mixed with the occasional bits of British '70s crossover stuff. So I already know most of the Maytals tunes, Desmond Dekker, Alton Ellis etc. we just never gigged them because we got writing our own stuff for the electric band instead and got in brass players and so on. But now the plan is to go out and busk those old tunes and many of them need 3-piece vocals because they're all influenced by American soul vocal bands.

As for playing DB and singing - sometimes one of them is out of tune. I can do it on bass guitar and did a band in my teens where I played fretless and sang harmony comfortably enough, but doing it on DB is a struggle at the moment, maybe explained a bit by my "String advice" thread - I can't hear my pitch very well at the moment, things are a bit thumpy.

Still loving it though, wish I'd got into DB properly decades ago. And I think if I didn't sing while playing bass I'd probably over-play a lot of the time. I don't have a great voice (my pitch is good, my voice not-so-much) but at least it keeps me out of trouble.

This post has been edited by thisnameistaken: Jun 7 2010, 11:28 PM