Clarky Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 To kick off with I've pasted below from the 'How was your gig' thread when I mentioned having feedback problems on the big boomy stage last night (rig: DB; piezo p/up into Fishman Plat Pro into AI Coda combo into AI extension cab): [quote name='bob_pickard' post='1194264' date='Apr 10 2011, 07:28 AM']As for feedback - I've tried everything piezo wise, muting the strings, phase shifting, praying and swearing - unfortunately you have to use a mag pickup in small/medium halls at big volume - the schaller is loud but sounds rubbish and rattles - Kent Armstrong is pretty good; I've just got a Moses Graphite to try which will be interesting and have my eye on their new one....you can borrow one and try if you like if we can find a gap where gigs don't clash[/quote] [quote name='clarky' post='1194264' date='Apr 10 2011, 010:00 AM']Thanks mate - I really have to solve the volume/feedback problem as our band plays quite loudly and, with 13 of us last night (plus two clowns), I have to stand tight to a fairly noisy drummer. I used an Auralex Gramma pad for my extension cab and put the AI Coda at head level behind me on a solid old Trace bass amp (not switched on!) and still could barely hear myself at the levels that didn't produce feedback. My strings are Silver Slaps so I would need to move to metal strings if I went for a mag pickup - mind you I also have a set of Presto Ultralights (on my Eminence now) which I think contain metal, so can be used with a mag p/up.[/quote] So I wondered if any of the experienced DB'ers had any suggestions to get my rig louder without encountering feedback problems? BTW, the sound engineer had to virtually remove all the low-mids on my Fishman preamp to control the feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Have you tried stuffing the f-holes with cloths? Also wrapping a cloth round the strings on the tailpiece side of the bridge, and putting another between the tailpiece and the body of the double bass. Each of the above addresses a specific area of the instrument that can feedback. It is also possible that it is other instruments causing the feedback indirectly, e.g. if a keyboard player's speaker and/or monitor is facing the body of your double bass, some notes from the keyboard may cause your bass to resonate and start the feedback, whereas the double bass itself would not feedback. The same can apply with guitars. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Clarky' post='1194339' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:06 AM']BTW, the sound engineer had to virtually remove all the low-mids on my Fishman preamp to control the feedback[/quote] Clarky have you not tried finding a level that you are happy with which includes feedback and then simply flicked the phase switch? (age old problem tho mate) Edited April 10, 2011 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 If you can avoid standing directly in front of a speaker (not just you own) then there's less chance of the feedback being kicked off in the first place. I've also found downward firing speakers bass cabs help, as does having forward firing cabs lifted up around ear level. Personally, I've not found stuffing or covering t-holes to make a huge difference, but it certainly can't hurt. At the end of the day though, DB feedback was the reason for the invention of the electric bass..... I think Slobluesline has his bass modified with two soundposts to stop the table moving and thus, stop the vibration that sets off the feedback. The downside is that there'll be a big reduction in acoustic volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Solid body EUB - if you really want to play in loud situations its the only way. But even then they will still assume its you when anything within a ten mile radius of the stage honks, squawks or even farts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Thanks all. I will try cloth around the bridge next time. Unfortunately I have no option due to size of band but to stand near the drummer and my amp (which has a down firing speaker) when the stage is cramped, as it was last night. It was hugely difficult trying to adjust things before our set commenced as the DJ was playing drum n bass at Heathrow Terminal levels and the stage was booming like a mofo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Just a thought. - what about Di ing from Fishman and using some sort of in -ear monitoring so I don't need the amp next to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Our guitarist - who used to play bass in a rockabilly band - swears by squeezing the bass between your knees. Not something I think would work for me but apparently it does help! Can't say I've had any feedback trouble really with my bass, into my regular BG amp using a Bass Max through a Fishman plat pro. I get a lot of volume despite usually being very close to my amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 plugging the f/holes does the trick, try 3/4 layers of gaffa tape first (single layer is useless) if that works there's diy or Dougs Plugs... [url="http://www.dougsplugs.com/"]http://www.dougsplugs.com/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='slobluesine' post='1194417' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:18 AM']plugging the f/holes does the trick, try 3/4 layers of gaffa tape first (single layer is useless) if that works there's diy or Dougs Plugs... [url="http://www.dougsplugs.com/"]http://www.dougsplugs.com/[/url][/quote] For about £60 inc postage those foam Dougs Plugs f-hole plugs look like a pretty good solution as they are invisible to the audience - will investigate! TNIT, don't think I could squeeze the bass between my knees as a long term option but U can see it might work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 DIY solution here Clarky... [url="http://www.doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10559"]http://www.doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10559[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='TheRev' post='1194365' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:34 AM']Personally, I've not found stuffing or covering t-holes to make a huge difference, but it certainly can't hurt.[/quote] I think the effectiveness of this will vary from instrument to instrument. My DB has a carved top & back, which are apparently more resonant than a ply instrument, and consequently will be more prone to feedback, so maybe stuffing the f-holes makes a bigger difference in my case. I don't always use it as a "total feedback killer" as such, more often if the instrument is getting a little bit prone to feedback on stage, or if the body of the instrument is picking up other sounds onstage and transmitting them through the pickup, I find that stuffing the f-holes will stabilise and clean up the sound a bit. I'm not sure about the function of a downward firing speaker: is this for the benefit of the audience or the player? Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 On a boomy stage, if the coupling is a problem and especially with a down-firing speaker (are we talkinng mesa scout's passive radiator?), some serious isolation between cab and stage might help a fair bit. Thick layers of wool rug might help, though obv you need to make sure the speaker still has some air below. We used to find plonking the bass amp on layers of folded black twill stagecloth made a reasonable difference on these booming stages. Got to be thick though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Magnetic PUP, simple as. I have a KA and an Underwood on the same bass running into a Baggs dual channel pre. Above a certain level (around the equivalent of 100-200w), if I accidentally switch to the Underwood, or even try to blend it in a little, the rest of the band run for cover. The KA alone has never given me serious feedback, and at much higher levels than the Underwood tolerates. Having said this, I still have to be careful not to let the bass resonate to much, especially on the e-string, so I keep a sock under the tailpiece just to be safe. Live sound is always a compromise unless you have very expensive processing/dynamics gear, a very talented soundguy, and a kind room (or at least a room that you know well), so it's best to have a fallback position for every gig, and the mag PUP is mine. Otherwise, as was suggested above, a solid-body EUB, there's no way I'd ever be able to squeeze feedback out of my SLB-100. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I have an AI combo too, which makes for a great natural sound pretty much anywhere in the room except for your own position - the downward-firing speaker rather seems to spread the sound past your ankles, so folks at the back will get a great bass sound but you have no idea what you're playing! For louder applications I've found forward-firing cabs a bit better, but as has been noted you eventually reach a volume at which EUB or a fretless bass becomes the only way. Alternatively, EVERYBODY TURN DOWN!! and use a decent front PA speaker system for all the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 +1 to the above. Player quieter on the stage and let FOH handle the volume out front. Or is this too simple a solution to your requirements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 A trip to toys r us will sort it. Buy a beach ball, put it inside the E side f hole and blow it up. It will damp the body without killing the sound. Make sure it doesn't touch the Soundpost or you get some Odd vibrations. I use a Mesa with a downfiring speaker and it works just fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1194536' date='Apr 10 2011, 01:08 PM']+1 to the above. Player quieter on the stage and let FOH handle the volume out front. Or is this too simple a solution to your requirements?[/quote] In principle thats eminently sensible but there's 13/14 of us packing the stage and I am squeezed next to a loud-ish drummer and a sousaphone player so even with amps low its bl**dy noisy on stage!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) 14 onstage!!! bloody eck!!! errrr get yerself a Fender mate you CANT make any money Edited April 10, 2011 by slobluesine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='slobluesine' post='1194551' date='Apr 10 2011, 01:21 PM']14 onstage!!! bloody eck!!! errrr get yerself a Fender mate you CANT make any money [/quote] We took home £400 last night which is not bad for an hour's gig ... until you divide it between 13 of us! The DB is partly an image thing as its a retro band (see below) - it would be a damn sight easier to use my P bass! [attachment=77110:rattlin_bone.jpg] Edited April 10, 2011 by Clarky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='hubrad' post='1194530' date='Apr 10 2011, 01:03 PM']I have an AI combo too, which makes for a great natural sound pretty much anywhere in the room except for your own position - the downward-firing speaker rather seems to spread the sound past your ankles, so folks at the back will get a great bass sound but you have no idea what you're playing![/quote] Would it then be correct to say that the downward firing speaker is completely redundant if your double bass is also going through the PA? Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='endorka' post='1194714' date='Apr 10 2011, 04:06 PM']Would it then be correct to say that the downward firing speaker is completely redundant if your double bass is also going through the PA? Jennifer[/quote] Yeah I'd just want some directional monitoring that I could actually *hear*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I think you've discovered why we all owe a ton of thanks to Leo Fender. If you need the DB for the image I'd put it on the stage where everyone can see it and then play my new Precision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 i notice Al Gare, Imelda May's Bass player, plays electric these days, so.... he's either got an endoresment that was too good to turn down (seems to play one of the new Burns a lot) or another suggestion is Upright Bass is NOT so cool for up n comin bands trying to hit the mainstream, paticularly in the USA, or maybe he's just pissed off carting the thing around on tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Definitely give the foam ball trick a go. On my fully carved bass I used to wedge a mini foam rugby ball between the tailpiece and the front plate to mimic my hand putting pressure on the top plate. That helped a lot to reduce feedback - possible because I was also dampening the tailpiece too. In case it hasn't been mentioned already - try deadening the afterlengths of the strings between the tailpiece and bridge. I'm using thick studio foam to kill any movement. In-ear monitors are also a good option - used in conjunction with your amp. I use my amp to give me the body/low-end of the sound and the in-ears to provide definition. One good tip I got from an experienced soundguy was to get cheap in-ear headphones because they'll let in a certain amount of stage noise/room ambience. That way you're not shut off from the rest of the band/audience and you don't have to worry about setting up a channel/mic to hear every one else. I use a hardwired pack from Fischer and had Thomann headphones before changing to Sennheiser IE8's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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