Andyjr1515 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hi This thread is in response to the very kind words from all you sweeties about my Squier VM Jaguar in Gear Porn. Like an idiot, I didn't take any shots of the work in progress on that one, but did for this Ibanez bass - my first attempt. I have since done two Strat 6 strings and the Jaguar bass - and they have all wildly beaten my expectations I'll post this over a few days... Firstly to explain: this is veneering with 0.6mm veneer over an essentially flat-topped design - it is not like adding an, eg, maple top requiring routing, carving, etc. This makes it relatively straightforward, requiring very few special tools and also doesn't affect the tone, other than getting most of the thick nitro / poly off which, in most cases, frees up the sound noticeably. These first shots show the stripping, and the positioning of the veneer. Shot 1 - the 'Before' Nice entry-level bass. Nice red trans finish. The seller was appalled that I was going to strip it all off [attachment=83186:P1020236.JPG] Shot 2 - the 'After' [attachment=83180:P1020295.JPG] Shot 3 - stripping. Probably the most difficult bit of the whole process. The only sensible way I've found (that poly is TOUGH) is an electric paint stripping heat gun and decorators' scrapers. The challenge is applying enough heat to get the covering brittle, but not that much that it burns the wood Not so critical on the top because that will be covered, but crucial at the back and sides as these will be clear coated. I always do get SOME burn marks, but the less the better as they take a considerable amount of sanding out and unless you want to end up with a cigar box bass... Also watch not to dig into the wood - same problem! [attachment=83181:P1020259.JPG] Not essential (and not used for this one) but a great investment is a standard electric sander. If sanding by hand, use a sanding block - the top especially needs to be dead flat Either way, next bit is to sand and sand and sand until all burns and finish have gone. Wipe it over occasionally with a damp cloth to see where there are still inconsistencies of wood colour. The grain ends are particularly prone to the dye soaking in Shot 4 - done and never want to see a bit of sandpaper again [attachment=83182:P1020262.JPG] Shot 5 - the bookmatched sheets of American Burl Walnut. Very fragile in this state [attachment=83183:P1020263.JPG] Shot 6 - using a newspaper mask to work out where best to position the veneer. Remember that your bridge and pups will cover some of this, so position for the best effect. Leave plenty of spare around the outside shape (at least 40mm all round), mark with a felt-tip and... [attachment=83184:P1020264.JPG] Shot 7 - ...cut it out! Standard long household scissors (wife's dressmakers are great until you get found out) work a treat BUT keep it flat, don't twist or bend otherwise it will split. Don't try to cut out the cutaways - the curves are too tight. [attachment=83185:P1020267.JPG] Next post, I'll go through how to glue without special equipment or tears (the crying kind) or tears (the ripping kind) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thanks for posting, very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Now if my GSR200 looked that good (And had functioning Electronics) i wouldn't have any hesitations about gigging it at all. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='LiamPodmore' post='1276511' date='Jun 20 2011, 11:14 PM']Now if my GSR200 looked that good (And had functioning Electronics) i wouldn't have any hesitations about gigging it at all. Liam[/quote] ...and if I could play the flaming thing, Liam, neither would I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 OK - next stage - doing the actual veneering The equipment - a small sponge decorators roller; standard PVA wood glue; an iron; an old hankie or similar; a water mist spray; a disposable Stanley hobby knife A little known fact about PVA wood glue is that, coated on both items and left to dry for 1/2 hour, it acts as a very effective 'iron-on' glue. As such, the veneering is actually very straightforward Shots 1 & 2 [attachment=83219:P1020268.JPG] [attachment=83220:P1020269.JPG] I use a gloss paint 6" foam roller and standard wood PVA Shots 3 & 4 [attachment=83221:P1020270.JPG] [attachment=83226:P1020271.JPG] Apply a thin BUT COMPLETE covering to half of the body and one veneer half (remember which way up!). Be careful when you do the veneer not to press too hard - very easy to split at this stage. As soon as the veneer is covered, gently lift the sheet and spray it LIGHTLY with a fine water mist on the other side (I use a 50p travelling perfume atomiser from Boots). That is because the veneer, wetted by the glue, will immediately start to expand and curl. Wetting it on the other side, balances out the expansion. Wait around 30 mins until both glue surfaces are touch dry. Position the veneer carefully and accurately so the butting edge is bang on the centreline. Shot 5 Cover with a thin cloth (thin enough to let the heat through but thick enough to stop the veneer scorching. I use old fashioned handkerchiefs. Brown wrapping paper would also be OK) [attachment=83222:P1020273.JPG] Iron the veneer with a hot iron (max setting) from the butt-edge first and then fanning out to the edges. Be careful not to tug at the veneer or it will slide slightly out of poisition. If it hasn't quite stuck down, just iron the offending area again - this can be done any time and, provided you had full glue cover, will restick firmly. Shot 6 The veneer is now on, firmly stuck [attachment=83223:P1020274.JPG] Shot 7 While you still can see the pickguard / bridge holes, etc on the unveneered side, position the hardware and punch through the veneer to the respective screwholes with a pencil end or small screwdriver [attachment=83225:P1020278.JPG] Shot 8 I find it easier to trim each half at a time. I use the Stanley disposable hobby knives as they have a sharp but long blade. Due to the covering of glue, the veneer is now a lot tougher, but still can split. Wherever possible, cut along the body edge so that you are putting as little pulling stress on the veneer as possible. If a bit DOES tear, just iron it back in place. For the body edge I cut from the body side, using the body as the knife guide, using a gentle sawing motion [attachment=83224:P1020275.JPG] Shot 9 Trimmed ready to do exactly the same on the other side [attachment=83228:P1020276.JPG] The other side is just a repeat, except two extra points to note: 1 Butt the joint up as tight as you can and iron towards the join - as the veneer heats, it dries and shrinks. Ironing towards the join lets the veneer slide slightly to close the joint. 2 Before ironing the curve of the arm relief, give the top surface of the veneer a quick spray of water - it will start to expand and curve the correct way. Iron the veneer smoothly from the main body towards and over the curve and finally the flat part of the arm relief. Final tip is that, once trimmed, I run round all of the edges with the iron to make absolutely sure the veneer is well glued there for when I do the final trimming and sanding Next instalment will probably be towards the weekend. Hope the above is clear and of interest - any confusion just ask! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanark Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Absolutely fascinating. This is genuinely the only clear wood bass that I've thought WOW, beautiful. It doesn't look like a sideboard or a coffee table. I trust you're very proud with your two builds. I'd love to try it someday. Edited June 21, 2011 by lanark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 One of the best threads I've ever seen on here! My ATK better run and hide. cos the sandpaper's coming out soon! Where did you source your veneer Andy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Excellent thread! Thanks for sharing your tips and tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 [quote name='Bigwan' post='1278088' date='Jun 22 2011, 08:01 AM']One of the best threads I've ever seen on here! My ATK better run and hide. cos the sandpaper's coming out soon! Where did you source your veneer Andy?[/quote] Flattery will get you absolutely anywhere Thanks I use the dreaded Ebay - there are quite a few suppliers about on and off ebay, but two I have had good experiences with include Specialised Veneers and Freed Veneers. It is a case of keeping your eye out for some that comeup occasionally with a pleasing pattern or effect. The particular one used on the Jaguar Bass (I think its a type of Amboyna but not certain) I have never seen again. Nice examples of American Burl Walnut (used on the Ibanez) however, is fairly common Thanks for your interest and encouraging words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 OK - final bit. Fewer photos, but most of it is self explanatory (I hope!) Shot 1 [attachment=83410:P1020425.JPG] I use Birchwood Casey Tru Oil and their Sealer Filler. It is not an oil finish - it goes on like oil but sets to a proper gloss varnish finish (after a few coats - see below). IT IS NOT AS TOUGH AS POLY OR NITRO by any means at all, but, after drying properly is quite tough enough for normal use. The other great feature is that it can be applied indoors and repairs are a breeze First is to sand around the veneer join to ensure that all the veneer threshold is down to fully glued veneer. I use 100 grit for this but used gently. I sand generally ALONG the join line for two reasons: [list] [*]It is easier to smooth out irregularities in the line to get a smooth continuous curve of veneer [*]It is easier to remove ALL the PVA from the uncovered wood at the join line [/list] The reason that the latter point is important is that, when you varnish, any PVA will show as a white line. Any PVA still on the uncovered wood will show through as a white blob. You can see the effect in this shot... [attachment=83419:PVA.jpg] The great thing about using Tru-Oil is that, if you get something like this, you just sand it down to the wood again (v easy), sort the problem out and then just re-varnish. Once the veneer join line is smooth, PVA free and completely secure (either re-iron if it has lifted or, if it is dry of glue, sand a little further back until you reach the full bond line), sand the whole body with 300 grit, running to 1000 grit. Look out particularly for any sanding 'gouges' and sand down to a smooth even finish. Any seepage of PVA onto the veneer surface should also be sanded away Apply a coat of Birchwood Casey Sealer Filler relatively thickly with a brush - it is clear and behaves just like Tru oil but is thicker and dries thicker. On the bare wood, one coat should be enough to fill all the pores. On the veneer, there will be splits and holes. You have a choice: [list] [*]Leave them be - this gives a real 'wood' texture [*]Fill them - this gives a traditional glass smooth finish [/list] On the Ibanez, I didn't attempt to fill them (see below) [attachment=83422:Grain.jpg] Difficult to photograph, but the effect of the grain lines radiating out from the centre is STUNNING On the Jaguar, I did, because I wanted a '1940's rolls royce polished wood facia' finish. If you want it 'au naturelle', then just sand down the sealer filler back to the wood (300-500 grit) and then start Tru-oiling If you want it flawless, then I've found two ways of filling quickly, both involving mixing the sanded veneer dust with the filler: [list] [*]Cover an area of veneer with sealer and then sand the wet sealer. This creates a slimy mush which fairly effectively fills the gaps with veneer-coloured filler [*]Sand some veneer offcut, gather the dust and mix with a little sealer-filler to create a paste and fill the cracks and holes like you would a ceiling before painting [/list] Once filled, sand down back to the bare wood and veneer with 300 - 500 grit Now it's just a case of applying the Tru-Oil. Try it on a little scrap veneer, but basically the first two or three coats dry dull, and then subsequent coats dry gloss (dry time to recoat is c 1 hour. Overnight to be able to handle safely without 'bruising' the finish. Some folk apply Tru Oil with lint-free cloth, some with a brush, some with their thumb. After each coat is dry, sand with 1000 grit wet & dry wet to get rid of any brush marks, dust bugs or minor runs. I use a sticky tack rag after a thorough wipe down before the coats - the slightest bit of dust will show. It sometimes takes a few attempts but, if you can be as dust free as possible, one of the coats will be run free, dust free and high gloss - STOP AT THIS POINT!!! After a few days, any small imperfections can be Autosol'd out (but be gentle - the coating is not very thick) or Birchwood Casey Wax - able The result - a fabulous guitar that smells like a well prepared cricket bat [attachment=83425:IMG_1503.jpg] Hope this has helped / inspired. Ask any questions you like - if I can answer them I will. If any of you have better answers, I will happily steal the ideas from you Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Some awesome handiwork on this thread. I'm particularly liking the way the grain is oriented on both the GSR and the (Fender/Squier?) Jazz... Here's an idea (or two) to steal; Lighter (coloured) veneers with coloured stains over "natural" bodies. Matching headstocks!!! Still awesome, even without those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1281568' date='Jun 24 2011, 09:56 PM']Some awesome handiwork on this thread. I'm particularly liking the way the grain is oriented on both the GSR and the (Fender/Squier?) Jazz... Here's an idea (or two) to steal; Lighter (coloured) veneers with coloured stains over "natural" bodies. Matching headstocks!!! Still awesome, even without those![/quote] Hi The Jaguar is a Squier Vintage Modified... I will shamelessly steal your first idea but, like the Burglar Bill I am, the second idea is already well and truly stolen [attachment=83426:IMG_1501.jpg] Thanks for the feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmsheep Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Oh wow, VERY nice job there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycrowave Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 incredible work and great tutorial. its great when processes like this are demystified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Andyjr1515' post='1281582' date='Jun 24 2011, 10:13 PM']Hi The Jaguar is a Squier Vintage Modified... I will shamelessly steal your first idea but, like the Burglar Bill I am, the second idea is already well and truly stolen [attachment=83426:IMG_1501.jpg] Thanks for the feedback![/quote] Great Minds Think Alike!! And as for him... You only have to type about as far as "Burgl..." and he pops up 3rd on Google as it completes your search. Shocking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Here's a closer shot of the headstock. I never know whether I should put on a decal... [attachment=83857:IMG_1509.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 That's fantastic, Andy, thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Brilliant article. Thanks. I'm very tempted to try myself. Thanks for the inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.