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What guitar amp for people who do not know how to work things


Owen
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I teach on a BTEC music course. We had a couple of Laney DC30 valve amps. Channel switching and sounded good. Obviously my students could not EVER look after them and we were constantly mending them. They could not seem to go more than 3 weeks without breaking them. We need something SS probably which will take a hammering but not sound rubbish and cost approx £250. Obv they will turn everything up to the max as soon as we turn our backs - it appears to be in their job description. Any ideas?

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[url="http://www.musicwarehouse.co.uk/peavey/1175-peavey-windsor-studio-guitar-amplifier.html"]http://www.musicwarehouse.co.uk/peavey/1175-peavey-windsor-studio-guitar-amplifier.html[/url] Bargain @ £249 :o

Yes I know it's valve B) I've had mine a few years & it is a great sounding amp. The big PLUS is the rear mounted Power Soak, you can set this to limit the actual output & still get all the tone :happy: If you can't stop 'em turning it up, maybe you can stop 'em looking in the back?

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[quote name='owen' timestamp='1335960438' post='1638587']
I teach on a BTEC music course. We had a couple of Laney DC30 valve amps. Channel switching and sounded good. Obviously my students could not EVER look after them and we were constantly mending them. They could not seem to go more than 3 weeks without breaking them. We need something SS probably which will take a hammering but not sound rubbish and cost approx £250. Obv they will turn everything up to the max as soon as we turn our backs - it appears to be in their job description. Any ideas?
[/quote]

What is breaking? Maybe that is the thing that should be sorted, either mechanically, or by education. If its input jacks, then SS isn't very relevant.

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Valves being knocked out. Switched on and off very quickly. Fuses going. Being moved while the amps are still hot. It could be that the amps are not happy in themselves, but if they are not being hassles they are fine. Education is great, but my students operate outside the laws of normality when it comes to equipment. They can even break Neutrik jack plugs.

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At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, it's an educational establishment and you're a teacher. Is there something wrong with teaching them how to use it properly? Something wrong with making students sign for them? Something wrong with restricting access to encourage proper use? Lots of possibilities here. Letting them have free rein to f*** it up every time they get their hands on it ain't one of them.

Although now retired, I've been both a schoolteacher and private tutor over many years. You need to find a way and stick to it - even if they hate you for doing it, they'll come to respect the decision in time.

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Learning how to not break your gear should be a pretty fundamental part of being a musician. you don't get to be a pilot by forgetting to put the wheels down when landing, and saying 'Not my job, I am just supposed to fly the thing.'.

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[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1335966753' post='1638750']
At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, it's an educational establishment and you're a teacher. Is there something wrong with teaching them how to use it properly? Something wrong with making students sign for them? Something wrong with restricting access to encourage proper use? Lots of possibilities here. Letting them have free rein to f*** it up every time they get their hands on it ain't one of them.

Although now retired, I've been both a schoolteacher and private tutor over many years. You need to find a way and stick to it - even if they hate you for doing it, they'll come to respect the decision in time.
[/quote]

I have to agree with this. Why should you have to pay for them acting like idiots? I think you should get a hard wearing dependable amp by all means (Peavey solid state sounds good) but that's only half the problem. You have got to tell them that they can't just expect to be all caveman like with gear and get away with it. Being a musician is also about taking care of your (and other peoples') gear.

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The concept of musicians respecting kit is admirable. It is how things should be. The concept of students respecting kit is admirable, it just does not happen. The idea that I can drill the care of other peoples property into them is attractive but not realistic (this is not just my students but this generation in general). 80% are fine (Musos). The other 20% (wanabees) are not vindictave or deliberately destructive, but to them it is "just college kit" and we will just "buy new ones". They might be musos by the time they leave, they might not. We do not have a technician for stuff to be signed in and out. Obviously we teach them how to use it, but what they do when we are there and what they do when we are not are two different thing.

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[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1335982587' post='1639137']
Bill them for any damage that occurs while in their care. Ligit in other walks of life, what's different here ?
[/quote]

Exactly what happened when I was studying bass at college, needless to say, very few breakages happened

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1335967186' post='1638763']
Learning how to not break your gear should be a pretty fundamental part of being a musician. you don't get to be a pilot by forgetting to put the wheels down when landing, and saying 'Not my job, I am just supposed to fly the thing.'.
[/quote]

Nah don't teach them how to, i like people breaking stuff and giving me money.

Also +1 on the bandit!

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[quote name='umph' timestamp='1335994910' post='1639380']
Nah don't teach them how to, i like people breaking stuff and giving me money.

Also +1 on the bandit!
[/quote]

I'd cheerfully go without seeing the inside of a Marshall valvestate or any Ampeg ever again.

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Fender Pro Junior. Fifteen valve watts, two knobs: volume & tone, which is an interactive tone, not just a treble rolloff. One 10-inch speaker. The lead singer in a band I used to be in was gear challenged, so I had him purchase one for strumming chords while he sang. For not being a "real" guitar player, he sounded pretty good through the amp. His one cord was in his small guitar case, and he was truly a cash-and-carry guy at the gigs: came in, set the amp on the ledge behind him beside the bass drum, plugged in and the gig was on. No muss, no fuss, no fiddling with knobs or controls, just set both knobs at 12:00 and went for it.

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The big problem with valve amps in this kind of situation is that people often don't understand that they take a little while to warm up when switched on. I've watched people turn an amp on then start flicking the power switch on and off repeatedly (which is hard on the power supply, especially with a valve rectifier), wrench the input jack around or unplug and re-plug the speaker in a vain attempt to get some sound out. Any of these could require a tech visit in short order!
At gigs where backline is shared, I've started taping simplified instructions in big letters to the top of my amp, then hanging around to watch the other bands soundcheck in case they do anything stupid. I'm sure college students will be even worse due to lack of experience. Peavey Bandits seem indistructible, but are also very loud when turned to 10, which might be worth bearing in mind if you think your students will do that.

Edited by Beer of the Bass
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[quote name='owen' timestamp='1335969745' post='1638806']
The concept of musicians respecting kit is admirable. It is how things should be. The concept of students respecting kit is admirable, it just does not happen. The idea that I can drill the care of other peoples property into them is attractive but not realistic (this is not just my students but this generation in general). 80% are fine (Musos). The other 20% (wanabees) are not vindictave or deliberately destructive, but to them it is "just college kit" and we will just "buy new ones". They might be musos by the time they leave, they might not. We do not have a technician for stuff to be signed in and out. Obviously we teach them how to use it, but what they do when we are there and what they do when we are not are two different thing.
[/quote]

When I was studying engineering in the late 1960s each of the students had to pay a deposit of £10 (about £150 in todays money) at the start of each term and any equipment breakages due to the individuals carelesness, stupidity etc. forfeited a fraction to all of the deposit towards the repair or replacement of the kit.
Obviously , if you didn't b**gger anything then you got your £10 back at the end of term.
The college staff told us that breakages dropped from £2K/term to £12/term (continuous) on average within the space of two terms.
The real point was that the staff really enforced the rules and wouldn't stand any messing, including expulsion if necessary.
Don't pander to the little gits, be tough and they will respect you, the kit and the college in the end.

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[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336052883' post='1640116']
Ah but no students equals no course, no course equals no job ;)
[/quote]

It's the 80/20 thing. As owen has already said, 80% of the breakages are caused by 20% of the students. Assume say half of them leave then you still have 90% of the students on the course, and they are going to be more dedicated to actually getting a qualification.

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[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1336056504' post='1640233']
It's the 80/20 thing. As owen has already said, 80% of the breakages are caused by 20% of the students. Assume say half of them leave then you still have 90% of the students on the course, and they are going to be more dedicated to actually getting a qualification.
[/quote]

But you've still got the other half of the students who were breaking everything, and you only need one person who doesn't/won't learn and the whole thing is ruined for everyone.

Deposit systems require monitoring to be enforceable, which then takes time away from other things, like teaching... I'm with the Peavey Bandit option.

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[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1336057865' post='1640280']

Deposit systems require monitoring to be enforceable, which then takes time away from other things, like teaching...
[/quote]

....which of course a constant stream of damaged equipment wouldn't... :unsure:

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[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1336057865' post='1640280']
But you've still got the other half of the students who were breaking everything, and you only need one person who doesn't/won't learn and the whole thing is ruined for everyone.
[/quote]

They wouldn't though, because they would have to pay up or get out.

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[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1336057865' post='1640280']
But you've still got the other half of the students who were breaking everything, and you only need one person who doesn't/won't learn and the whole thing is ruined for everyone.

Deposit systems require monitoring to be enforceable, which then takes time away from other things, like teaching... I'm with the Peavey Bandit option.
[/quote]

OK, so how much time is being wasted at the moment trying to sort and repair broken kit?
The root cause of the problem is the "BAD" students not the amps, leads, etc.etc.
Eliminate the the root cause and the problem is solved.
Therefore, train the students (by teaching and/or offering the deposit incentive), monitor performance and get rid of the non conforming elements.
IMO this would be a damn sight cheaper and time effective in the medium term than continuously replacing kit however sturdy it is, and turning a blind eye to the small fraction of "students" who spoil it for everybody else.
If these so called prospective musos behaved like this in a working environment they wouldn't last 4 nanoseconds.
Make 'em aware of the problem which is impacting on everyone else and make them responsible and accountable for their own behaviour and actions.
If necessary cancel lessons for the whole class occassionally and let the good'ns sort out the bad'ns themselves.
It certainly worked at the schools I went to. (They weren't approved schools, either........)

Edited by Jazzneck
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