Stompbox anyone?

[brensabre79]

I don't think I have come across an amp modeller that really sounds and feels like a good valve amp being cranked, they just don't sing in the same way, I've tried Boss, Line6, Zoom and Digitech stuff. One exception is the one I use for recording guitars now, a [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vox-Tonelab-Original-/320984316604?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4abc27fabc"]VOX Tonelab[/url] - it has a valve in it so its less of a simulation. It also has cab models in. Its quite simple (and a few years old now) but what it does it does pretty well for me. And its MIDI programmable! Never tried it live though. I've also not tried the current version.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1347968030' post='1807241']
This is the only one that comes up on a quick search

[url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/behringer-ultra-g-gi100-active-di-box-with-guitar-cab-simulator--6950"]http://www.dv247.com...simulator--6950[/url]

Any other suggestions?
[/quote]

[url=http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=110&prod=Red%20Box%20Classic]Hughes & Kettner Red Box[/url].

I have a H&K Tube 50 Guitar combo which has the Red Box DI built in. The difference between the DI sound and an SM57 on the cab is minimal...

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1347968030' post='1807241']
Any other suggestions?
[/quote]

Hughes and Kettner Red Box [url="http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=110"]http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=110[/url] It needs a speaker load if inputting from an amp's speaker out, afaik.

Amp modellers are nice but these days I think most multi-effects units would do the job just as well. Both types tend to have similar feature sets - name amps, cab sims, effects patches, line out etc. The difference would seem to be form - one is for the desktop and the other goes under your boot. As I understand it, both types sound a bit wimpy live because the factory pre-sets are eq'd for 'bedroom usage' - lots of top and bottom, lots of wet effects.

When auditioning such things I'd be inclined to search out the 'basic' presets for the name amps such as Fender, Vox, Marshall, etc and see what they sound like with the middle cranked up and a bit rolled off the top and the bottom. Then you've got a good starting point.

Thing is, they all claim to accurately reproduce certain amp types, but in reality they all sound a bit different to each other and to the 'real thing' and it's not that important anyway. As the estimable Mr BRX says, it's a case of finding something that sounds nice in a musical sense.

Silddx gigs his guitar with a Pod - drop him a PM if he doesn't saunter by presently.

[Mr. Foxen]

Do you take your own PA to gigs? If not, then you are relying on outside forces to be able to play. At least bring own wedge monitors.

[charic]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1347970302' post='1807317']
Do you take your own PA to gigs? If not, then you are relying on outside forces to be able to play. At least bring own wedge monitors.
[/quote]

We're looking at building a few BFM speakers

Although we already rely on the PA a LOT because the drums go through it aswell (the monitors cut out at the last gig, surprisingly no-one noticed but fek were we concentrating...)

[charic]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347969815' post='1807298']
[url="http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=110&prod=Red%20Box%20Classic"]Hughes & Kettner Red Box[/url].

I have a H&K Tube 50 Guitar combo which has the Red Box DI built in. The difference between the DI sound and an SM57 on the cab is minimal...
[/quote]

Sounds interesting, quick search isn't turning up much in the UK but will keep looking.


[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1347970267' post='1807316']
It needs a speaker load if inputting from an amp's speaker out, afaik.
[/quote]

That would suck muchly

[ChrisG]

It's a bold move but in my opinion it's probably the way things will go in the not too distant future. It won't be long now before you can't tell the difference between a modeller and a valve amp. With the Kemper we may already be there.

I think the Axe FX has become pretty much the industry standard these days. But as you noted they ain't cheap.

I read that Opeth (my only vaguely death metal reference point and probably too wimpy for you) were using the Boss unit (I think it was the GT-80 at the time) into a power amp and into their cabs. I read that they have now switched to the Axe FX as well.

In terms of the 'consumer' units I've heard (as mentioned above) that the Vox Tonelab is meant to be good but never tried one myself. I do recall that they don't have the ability to edit/save sounds but the newer ones might. The valve is meant to help but personally I've always been a bit sceptical of some of the claims made about anything that uses valves in the pre-amp only.

The Boss unit has the ability to save and edit sounds and recall them but some people dislike/despise the Boss overdrive and distortion sounds. I think they're okay. I think this is where I'm meant to put YMMV.

The Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister amps also have the Red Box built in. They ar epretty small and light and have a pretty good high gain sound on the 18 and the 36. They are also all valve but may need an extra pedal for Death Metal.

If it was me I'd probably look at the Boss GT.

[charic]

[quote name='ChrisG' timestamp='1347973520' post='1807413']
(my only vaguely death metal reference point and probably too wimpy for you)
[/quote]

Ironically I'm not a huge fan of "death" metal. I use it as a way to describe the band to other people but I don't think we're true death metal. Genres are annoying anyway

We're definitely trying out the GT aswell. I'm looking forward to someone ridiculing the guitarist for not having an amp before wiping the smile off of their face by turning up the PA

[ChrisG]

This is from H&K's website on the Red Box in the Tubemeister:

[i][size=3][font=Arial]The built-in RED BOX feeds preamp and true power amp tone straight to a stage or studio mixing console. It authentically emulates the sound of a 4 x 12" cab and delivers a balanced line signal to the Speaker Out for use in rehearsal rooms, on stage, and even to pipe that sweet tube-driven sound straight into the PA. In combination with the power soak’s silent recording option (Speaker Off), the RED BOX lets you lay down professional-quality tracks any time day or night. You can even feed the signal to in-ear monitors on stage without having to fuss with a cab or mic.[/font][/size][/i]

[font=Arial][size=2][size=3]I[/size][size=3] believe you can switch the wattage on the Tubemeister 18 from 18w to 5w to 1w to speaker off - this means that the Red Box absorbs the load and you don't need a cab if the speaker is off. There is also a 36w version but it runs about £700.[/size][/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=2][size=3](Edited to correct silly small font.)[/size][/size][/font]

Edited September 18, 2012 by ChrisG

[charic]

It would still mean carrying around a speaker for no other reason that to be a "load" though...

[ChrisG]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1347974354' post='1807436']
It would still mean carrying around a speaker for no other reason that to be a "load" though...
[/quote]

Not according to the manual:
[size=3] [/size]
[left][size=3][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"]The POWER SOAK offers the following modes:[/font][/font][/size][/left]

[left][size=3][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"]Normal operation - full power at 18 watts[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"]Power reduction to 5 watts[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"]Power reduction to 1 watt[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"]Mute (Speaker off) = 0 watts[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"] [/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][color="#6f6f6f"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][color="#6f6f6f"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][color="#6f6f6f"]Note that if you choose to mute the amp, you do [/color][/font][/color][/font][/color][/font][/size][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][size="1"][color="#6f6f6f"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][size="1"][color="#6f6f6f"][font="AGaramondPro-Regular"][size="1"][color="#6f6f6f"][size=3]not need to connect a speaker to the TubeMeister [/size][size=3]18’s SPEAKER output. Designed to enable silent [/size][size=3]recording, this option provides the full signal to the [/size][size=3]RED BOX output.[/size][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/left]

[charic]

Interesting, so the red box shouldn't need the speaker. Nice to know! Thanks

[ChrisG]

Glad to be of assistance. I only know all this because I almost bought one but ended up buying a Thumb NT of the For Sale on here instead.

[charic]

[quote name='ChrisG' timestamp='1347975430' post='1807464']
Glad to be of assistance. I only know all this because I almost bought one but ended up buying a Thumb NT of the For Sale on here instead.
[/quote]

Good man

I'm rather struck by the Engl sound from this clip

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=958hu_M1W24[/media]

Does start playing until about 1:30 though and playing properly about 2:30

[Dave Vader]

Sorry to hijack, but for all you guys using these for recording, can you get lovely squealy high gain feedback like Gallagher or hendrix from one of these? Cos that's the only reason i am still hanging on to my old valve amps.

[brensabre79]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1347980221' post='1807587']
Sorry to hijack, but for all you guys using these for recording, can you get lovely squealy high gain feedback like Gallagher or hendrix from one of these? Cos that's the only reason i am still hanging on to my old valve amps.
[/quote]
IF you monitor it through speakers cranked up loud enough you can. But if you monitor through headphones so the guitar cannot pickup the sound coming from the speakers then No you can't. But as good as these modelling boxes are, there is no substitute for a good old fashioned valve amp in my opinion! It's the same with plug-in synths et al - close, some very close, but not the same.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1347975047' post='1807453']
Interesting, so the red box shouldn't need the speaker. Nice to know! Thanks
[/quote]

Tread gently - according to the (standalone) Red Box Classic manual off the H&K website:


[left][size=4][font=Eurostile-BoldOblique][font=Eurostile-BoldOblique][quote] [/font][/font][b][i][font=Eurostile-BoldOblique][font=Eurostile-BoldOblique]Caution![/font][/font][/i][/b][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]Never operate an amp featuring a tube power[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]stage without a connected speaker or a power-[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]soak resistor with a sufficient load! Hughes[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]& Kettner is not liable for equipment damage[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]caused by erroneous handling of the Red Box.[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]When in doubt consult a qualified technician,[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]especially when dealing with load resistors.[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]Make a habit of connecting the Speaker Thru jack[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]to your speaker/speaker cabinet immediately after[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]connecting the amp‘s Speaker Out to the Red[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]Box‘s Speaker In! Ensure the amp is switched off[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]before you begin connecting cables; otherwise[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[left][size=3][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]the Red Box may be damaged. Ensure all plugs[/font][/font][/size][/left]
[size=4][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata][size=3]are inserted properly![/size] [/quote][/font][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]Maybe this is because it's a standalone unit rather than being an integral part of the Tubemeister. There are a couple (or more) versions of the red box and it's worth checking to see which ones have a built-in dummy load and which don't.[/font][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=FrizQuadrata][font=FrizQuadrata]Doesn't matter if your guitarist is going to be using a modeller or an FX unit - it'll be line level so no need for a load.[/font][/font][/size]

Edited September 18, 2012 by skankdelvar

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1347980221' post='1807587']
Sorry to hijack, but for all you guys using these for recording, can you get lovely squealy high gain feedback like Gallagher or hendrix from one of these? Cos that's the only reason i am still hanging on to my old valve amps.
[/quote]

Not if you use your position in front of the stack to control your feedback, the directional nature of a 4x12 is pretty key to that, is why I still use one.

[Ancient Mariner]

I would have thought Boss GT10 (not GR55 - that's a synth unit & needs a GR pickup to work properly) Vox tonelab, Line 6 HD500, used Eleven rack were the most reasonable options. I heard the eleven Rack when they first came out, and they were like a low-cost AxeFX unit, so that would be my preference.

[Bloodaxe]

Charic,

This might be of interest (esp. as it's relatively local):

http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/ada-mp-1-guitar-pre-amp-unmodified-excellent-condition/109211128

P.

[charic]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' timestamp='1348022495' post='1808245']
Charic,

This might be of interest (esp. as it's relatively local):

[url="http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/ada-mp-1-guitar-pre-amp-unmodified-excellent-condition/109211128"]http://www.gumtree.c...ition/109211128[/url]

P.
[/quote]

Cheers, just went in search of this and it sounds a bit tame for my guitarist upon listening.

[BigRedX]

I'd beware of anything more than 15 years old, because IME the patch switching technology simply wasn't very good, with noticeable delays between pressing the button/footswitch to change patches and the change actually happening and in the worst cases with the output being muted while the patch change occurs.

[charic]

Quick turn on the delay while I change patches!

[LiamPodmore]

If i couldn't afford an AxeFX, The only 3 i'd be considering are the Eleven Rack, Boss GT-Pro and Line 6 Pod HD-Pro. My boss uses the POD X3 and loves it, and i know people who are rating the Pod HD stuff quite highly as well. Pod HD Pro, and if the drives are a bit sh*te in your opinion, throw something like a Boss MT-2 in the effects loop and you're sorted.

Liam

[BigRedX]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1348054972' post='1808529']
Quick turn on the delay while I change patches!
[/quote]

Of course it will only work if you place the delay effects after the pre-amp/modeller otherwise the repeats will get cut off with the rest of the signal.

I still have the very excellent sounding Peavey Bassfex pre-amp/multi-effects unit, but the patch changing on it was terrible. Over half a second during which time the output was completely muted. Even using a sequencer to initiate the patch changes you needed at least a half bar pause in the bass part for them not to be cutting off notes.

Modern digital units won't have any of these problems. The very best ones will continue to output existing effect sounds such as delay repeats from the old patch while processing any new input sounds with newly selected patch.