Clarky Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Been reading about mic'ing a double bass (eg with DPA 4099B, which seems to be the most popular) and - whiIe I understand that this risks picking the sound from other instruments on stage (and monitors) - I don't understand why various sources talk about trying to avoid feedback. WIth a piezo I can understand that if the bass starts vibrating (eg from a boomy stage or monitor nearby) it gets picked up by the pickup and a feedback cycle can ensue. But an isolated mic (the 4099B is just attached by rubber feet to the strings below the bridge) surely only picks up sound, not vibrations, so why does it feed back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Bass & strings vibrate --> Sound --> Microphone --> Amp/Cab --> More sound --> Bass & strings vibrate more --> More Sound --> etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Yep...no mic can be that isolated in a gig setting. It will pick up all sorts, especially as the stage volume rises during a performance (as it always seems to!) Very bass specific mics like the Schertler stick on thing and the DPA aim to get as much as they can from the bass, and are designed not hear anything much beyond a very limited range, but even so you will probably have a low feedback threshold if the stage level is anything like high. The double bass is a pretty gentle giant acoustically, and that makes it a lot harder to amplify with microphones in anything but acoustic isolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Its just such a shame as no pickup ever conveys the true sound of a double bass IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Is this question posed in the context of running the mic to backline? If this is the case then feedback will generally follow whatever the quality of the mic and its amplification chain. But if you run the mic to front of house and not have monitors too close it will work very well. Only trouble is the audience will enjoy the great double bass sound but you won't! You will have to run a pickup to backline to hear yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) This one's pretty good at it... [attachment=114443:the-human-ear.gif] I reckon IEMs would help to reduce it, as you're taking the back line out of the equation. Edited July 30, 2012 by paul_5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='bassace' timestamp='1343660901' post='1753271'] Is this question posed in the context of running the mic to backline? If this is the case then feedback will generally follow whatever the quality of the mic and its amplification chain. But if you run the mic to front of house and not have monitors too close it will work very well. Only trouble is the audience will enjoy the great double bass sound but you won't! You will have to run a pickup to backline to hear yourself. [/quote] Unfortunately I was thinking primarily about the former - ie, to backline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1343660976' post='1753273'] I reckon IEMs would help to reduce it, as you're taking the back line out of the equation. [/quote] There's a thought. Unfortunately a thought that - with decent microphone thrown in - becomes a pricey one to test out. Has anyone on BC tried this perchance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You can do the IEM relatively cheap with small mixers and cheaper ear phones. I've tried this with an acoustic duo playing large venues. It was just too fiddly for our short setup times so we reverted to pickups and monitors and it was more stuff to carry. How big is the group? Have you tried just using one or two central mics and standing in semi-circle around them with out backline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1343663779' post='1753338'] You can do the IEM relatively cheap with small mixers and cheaper ear phones. I've tried this with an acoustic duo playing large venues. It was just too fiddly for our short setup times so we reverted to pickups and monitors and it was more stuff to carry. How big is the group? Have you tried just using one or two central mics and standing in semi-circle around them with out backline? [/quote] OK, thanks. Sounds impractical and too fiddly for us too. Our line-up is drums, guitar, mandolin, DB and two vocals. Think I will just stick with a piezo pickup for simplicity's sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Yes, that's why we all stick with Realists. Not perfect, but it usually works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I've had pretty good results using a Fischer two channel headphone amp, with one channel coming directly from my bass and the other being a mix from the sound guy. Great little flexible set-up. In dual mono mode (same signal to both ears) I can adjust the balance between me and everyone else on the fly. The other setting is a stereo mode - me in one ear, everything in other ear. That's great for total separation, but a little unsettling. I use this set-up for a trio with double bass/vocals, guitar/vocals and backing singer. Flippin guitarist had so much lovely low end from his acoustic that it was covering up my low end onstage and I was having trouble hearing myself properly. Not a terribly expensive set-up to be honest. Here's the stuff: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/fischer_amps_inear_monitor_bp.htm"]http://www.thomann.d..._monitor_bp.htm[/url] You'd also need this adapter as a regular one won't work with the saftey lock: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/fischer_amps_9v_dc_netzteil.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...dc_netzteil.htm[/url] And here's a cheaper version: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_hpa_in_ear.htm"]http://www.thomann.d..._hpa_in_ear.htm[/url] Bloody raging now - that looks like a great deal to try it out!!! Rather than this being a body pack that clips onto your belt, I just run a long headphone extension cable and plug into that - means less hassle when you're walking on or off stage. For earphones themselves - I started off with these cheapies from Thomann: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_ep_4.htm"]http://www.thomann.d..._tbone_ep_4.htm[/url] Cheap and cheerful and not a huge amount of low end but here's where that's a bonus: good soundguy suggested this to me - said to get cheap earphones because the seal/isolation isn't that good so it naturally lets in a good deal of the room ambience. Basically a cheap and easy way to hearing everyone else without setting up a second channel. Do it like this, along with playing through an amp, and you're basically just bumping your bass above the room sound. And because you can hear yourself better you can lower your amp volume and it sure makes it a darn side easier to [s]hear when you're out of tune[/s] play in tune. Edited July 30, 2012 by Gareth Hughes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Has anyone ever used the headphone out on their amp to provide some in-ear monitoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1343670037' post='1753465'] Has anyone ever used the headphone out on their amp to provide some in-ear monitoring? [/quote] You could do that if you're not hooking a cab up to the amp. My Genz Benz Streamliner master volume controls the headphone output and the speaker output so I'd deafen myself if I used headphones alongside a speaker live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Oh right. I just got a GB shuttle in the post today and that's what prompted my question, so I suppose that's not a sensible idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Thanks Gareth for your comments. You are always a fantastic source of info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1343684213' post='1753775'] Thanks Gareth for your comments. You are always a fantastic source of info [/quote] Is that a polite way of saying I'm a geek? Edited July 30, 2012 by Gareth Hughes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Haha, if being very well informed, unfailingly helpful and friendly qualifies someone as a geek, then you are indeed a geek! My kids tell me I am a neek, which is altogether less good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 But is he hench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1343813500' post='1755483'] But is he hench? [/quote] dench, bruv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 *scratches head* Being a childless non-native English speaker is not conducive to understanding what the hell the two of you are talking about I've just looked up both terms in the Urban Dictionary, and I'm infinitely grateful that, for a change, neither appears to have any mysterious sexual connotations or be used to describe obscure sexual practices of which I never even suspected the existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 you know Jack and I - a 50 something and a nearly 50-something - down with the kids. Not in the least bit embarrassing. Innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Er, no, thing is, I don't find that embarrassing at all - which may have something to do with yours truly being pretty close to your age anyway, so we're either all terminally uncool or we just don't give a damn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 In my day we were just dorks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm proud to be a geek. The geek shall inherit the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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