Gibson three point bass bridge

[basslowdown]

Apologies if I've missed this discussion somewhere else?

I currently have my heart set on a Gibson Thunderbird bass and whilst I know these are a bit of an acquired taste the three point bridges seem uniformly hated. Having not had huge experience with them I was just wondering what is actually wrong with them.

Are they unserviceable and useless? Or just difficult to work with or...?

Cheers

Martin

[bigsmokebass]

I don't mind them, for me I only have it on my T'Bird and not very often I change much so I needn't fiddle.
However, it's really tedious if you want to say: lower the action and alter the intonation as compared to your everyday bridge.

All down to taste and if you want to put the hipshot on it. To me, it seems to work well and pleases people but looks a bit out of place :-/

BSB

[Shaggy]

Many bassists replace the Gibson 3-pointer with the Hipshot Supertone, but I've never had any problem with them whatsoever; they do the job fine. I think it's mainly players using a plectrum who play with their hand resting on the bridge (which I don't) can find the corners uncomfortable.

Main thing to remember is to keep the bass "face up" when changing strings - or the saddles drop out.

Everyone should own a T'bird at least once - try it, and you can always fit a Hipshot later.

[CPBass]

The only problem Ive found with the Gibson bridge is that if you pop a string during a gig and forget to grab the saddle, you'll lose it. I learnt this the hard way back when Gibson had NO customer service or Epiphone existed. Had to have one made by my local friendly and expensive engineering firm.

The Gibson bridge does the job really but they are rather odd, the Supertone doesn't change the sound to my ears and does look out of place. If your into having a Thunderbird, the bridge isn't your problem, its making sure you keep holding the neck up whilst playing. Ive had 3 over the years and loved them all. Too awkward at my age, theres too many fab basses that don't give you grief to make a Tbird viable for me anymore.

They sound and look fantastic though

Edited September 9, 2012 by Voodoosnake

[basslowdown]

Thanks

I think I understand better now. At least I know any upgrade can come later.

[Panamonte]

I swapped out the 3 point bridge on my T-Bird for a Hipshot Supertone simply because I wanted to have greater control over adjusting individual string height, but evidently there are plenty of people who get on fine with the stock Gibson bridge - I suggest you take the plunge and then you can see which camp you fall into. I really like the Supertone bridge - I find it a lot easier to adjust - but I personally haven't noticed that it's made any difference to how the bass sounds which is fine because I liked the way it sounded anyway

[Billy Apple]

The 3 pointer is a little inflexible in adjustment, plus standing up on three legs you are lose resonance through the body that a full contact bridge gives. When I changed mine I did notice a difference in sound, it was fuller with more mid and a little less top. The Supertone is a very well made bit of kit.

[neepheid]

I was discussing this the other day on another forum, so here are the top five reasons why the three point bridge displeases me (and I love me Gibsons, I do):


1. The whole thing falls off if you remove all the strings.
2. I have had the threaded inserts pull out of the body on me when string tension is applied.
3. It's on stilts and it gives me the same confidence that a house on stilts would.
4. You can only adjust the height of the bridge in three places, there is no (easy) means to individually set string heights.
5. When installed (top loaded), the ball end of the string is so close to the saddles that the silk (or ratty end bit of unsilked strings) can go over the saddle, particularly on the E string. I don't claim to know what that might do to the sound, but it looks bad, and I wouldn't tolerate silks over the nut so why should I tolerate it at the bridge saddle?

I really don't understand why they persist with it. Yes, it works as a bridge, but all these design flaws (as I see them) just really irk me. Supertone for me all the way, except on carved tops.

[Norris]

I've never had a problem with mine. Once it's set up you shouldn't need to fiddle with it much

[lozbass]

I've never really understood the opprobrium heaped upon the Gibson 3 point bridge (though I can agree with 2 of Neepheid's 5 factors - personally, I haven't had a problem with stripping, individual height or stilt confidence). I find the bridge on my Ripper (I've had it since '79) to be a very solid unit with no sustain/resonance problems. The only real issue for me has been saddle drop-out, and possibility of the bridge unit coming away from the height adjustment bolts when re-stringing: if you're aware of this potential problem, then you should't experience any difficulty.

[neepheid]

[quote name='lozbass' timestamp='1347363705' post='1799757']
I've never really understood the opprobrium heaped upon the Gibson 3 point bridge (though I can agree with 2 of Neepheid's 5 factors - personally, I haven't had a problem with stripping, individual height or stilt confidence). I find the bridge on my Ripper (I've had it since '79) to be a very solid unit with no sustain/resonance problems. The only real issue for me has been saddle drop-out, and possibility of the bridge unit coming away from the height adjustment bolts when re-stringing: if you're aware of this potential problem, then you should't experience any difficulty.
[/quote]

Well, I've had to swap around at actual saddles to get things just right on one, it was a gold saddle when the rest of the bridge was chrome, I referred to it as the bass's "gold tooth". I had to epoxy the inserts into the body on an EB-3 - kept lifting out under string tension - not all the way out but you know - just worryingly enough.

My objections are design based - I shouldn't have to do all this. I shouldn't have to physically swap bridge saddles from other bridges to get the string height to my liking. I shouldn't have to burn silks off strings before I fit them. I shouldn't have to mind how I go when I restring. I shouldn't have to check to see if I still have a saddle after a string breaks. I certainly shouldn't have to epoxy the very things that keep the bridge in the body. A bridge is an anchor point for my strings and as such I expect it to be securely attached (read: directly physically coupled to the body). All these things to me are unnecessary and should have been rooted out at the design stage. The only reason the two point bridge morphed into the three point bridge was to address the two pointer's tendency to tip forward. Gibson didn't fix anything else and at this point in time with all these new models appearing with the same old three pointer show no signs of bothering their backsides any time soon.

[Floyd]

There's a 3 point bridge on my SG bass. I've had no problems with it. It's easy to set up for string height and intonation is easy to adjust. It will fall off if you take all the strings off but that's the same as with a stop bar bridge. all you need to be carefull of is selecting strings where the silk doesn't go over the saddle. No plans to swop mine out. It's OK.

[Dr M]

If you're set on a t-bird, but you're not too keen on those 3-point bridges (I don't blame you, I'm not) another option to consider is the Epiphone Thunderbird Pro-IV (or Pro-V, if you like.)

Classic t-bird design, but with updated features. Of course, they have Epiphone on the headstock, but I know quite a few people seem to swear by them.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1348849598' post='1819137']
If you're set on a t-bird, but you're not too keen on those 3-point bridges (I don't blame you, I'm not) another option to consider is the Epiphone Thunderbird Pro-IV (or Pro-V, if you like.)[/quote]

A guy I know in the USA has had copies of the original in chrome steel made...........
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=7109.0

[spinynorman]

I've got three 3-points to 1 BBOT. I can see if you're a compulsive tinkerer or regularly break strings the 3-point could be a problem, but I'm not and I don't. They were set up with flats when i got them,and I've pretty much forgotten about them since. No problem playing with a pick, but if it was, fit a bridge cover. The E string saddle on the BBOT occasionally collapses without warning, and that's a real pain, as it's under a bridge cover.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1348849598' post='1819137']
If you're set on a t-bird, but you're not too keen on those 3-point bridges (I don't blame you, I'm not) another option to consider is the Epiphone Thunderbird Pro-IV (or Pro-V, if you like.)

Classic t-bird design, but with updated features. Of course, they have Epiphone on the headstock, but I know quite a few people seem to swear by them.
[/quote]

Depends what you are after from a Thunderbird. IMO the Epiphone Thunderbird Pros have nothing in common with the classic Gibson bass except a similar body and headstock shape.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

+1 on the house on stilts comparison. I played a lovely Jack Casady bass today, but the bridge design alarms me, It's about an inch away from the body.
Didn't seem to have any negative effect on the tone, but it just seems daft to me to isolate the bridge from the body in such a way.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who is perfectly happy with the traditional 'BBOT'.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1348964256' post='1820272']
+1 on the house on stilts comparison. I played a lovely Jack Casady bass today, but the bridge design alarms me, It's about an inch away from the body.
Didn't seem to have any negative effect on the tone, but it just seems daft to me to isolate the bridge from the body in such a way.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who is perfectly happy with the traditional 'BBOT'.
[/quote]

When I got my Jack Casady the bridge was up at an alarming height, but I found I could get it down quite a lot. I'm no engineer, but I would guess those huge studs driven right into the wood would more than compensate for lack of other contact.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1349177146' post='1822730']
When I got my Jack Casady the bridge was up at an alarming height, but I found I could get it down quite a lot. I'm no engineer, but I would guess those huge studs driven right into the wood would more than compensate for lack of other contact.
[/quote]

I'm sure it's a sound design, it just looks a bit worrying and illogical. I still want a JC though.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1349269345' post='1824025']
I'm sure it's a sound design, it just looks a bit worrying and illogical. I still want a JC though.
[/quote]

It looks worse on a JC because of the contour of the body. On a flat solid body there's much less of the up on stilts look.

[gsgbass]

I've had the 3 point on SG Standards, and now on a Grabber 3 with no problems. Intonation is right on also.

[Elvis Valentine]

I personally have never had any problems with mine at all (Epi Thunderbird) other than the one point a few folk have mentioned about losing saddles if you break a string.
I dont suppose anyone knows of a place where you can buy a single (low e) saddle? i really dont want to replace the whole bridge. Ideally it'd be black but heck beggars cant be choosers.
Stupidly annoying.
But like i say i have no reason to want to replace it as it has been great for me.

[MelP]

No problems with the bridge from me - I have an Epi EB0 and more recently, Gibson SG Standard (Faded Ebony Limited Edition).

On the Epi, I did replace the screw nearest the neck with a thick washer as suggested by this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-cmvXJJTcc

It did seem to improve the sound. Thinking about doing it on my Gibson too.

[inneutral]

Hi, I'm suffering at the moment with 3-point-bridge syndrome. I have a 2007 Gibson Thunderbird, I bust a string during a gig and lost a saddle and screw. Gibson referred me to Allparts in the UK but to no avail; Sound Effects Music claimed to have used saddles but what they've sent is too big. I bought the basss new from Coda in Stevenage UK and they've now ordered a replacement. We'll see.

I also had issues when using Rotosound strings with silked ends muting the sound. I moved to Ernie Ball Hybrids but the overwarp would make the string buzz on occassion. My solution was to use ball-ends to bring the overwrap back so that it didn't rest on the saddle. I'll try to attach a photo...

I emailed both Gibson and Rotosound.

Gibson's response was:

Thank you for your interest in Gibson guitars.

We have not systematically tested Roto Sounds on our basses and have not heard of the problem you describe in particular. However it sounds like one of those things that every guitar or bass player will encounter along the way once in a while when trying different gear. Your way of fixing it seems adequate and the most simple and best solution in this case!

Rotosound responded too:

No not had this problem before and I will explain why. The length of the twist forming the eye is a standard length. It is referred to as a European ¾. Our core machines that make such are designed that way and have produced such for decades. The North American eye is slightly shorter around 5/8” but weaker. Your problem with this Gibson model is that the distance between the saddle and anchor point is really too short to take standard strings it seems. Way back originally in the late fifties/early sixties scale lengths and eye dimensions were designed around the Fender Precision and have not caused us any undue problems over the years.
It is a shame sometimes that instrument manufacturers do not consider the string fitment as if an afterthought which can give the owner a lot of grief later down the line.
Some slight mods, as you have done seems the only remedy but you have to watch the vibration. You should try the string on another bass though to ascertain whether it is the set up of the string itself.

I'm now very tempted to try the Hipshot replacement.

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='inneutral' timestamp='1390604516' post='2347599']
Hi, I'm suffering at the moment with 3-point-bridge syndrome. I have a 2007 Gibson Thunderbird, I bust a string during a gig and lost a saddle and screw. Gibson referred me to Allparts in the UK but to no avail; Sound Effects Music claimed to have used saddles but what they've sent is too big. I bought the basss new from Coda in Stevenage UK and they've now ordered a replacement. We'll see.

I also had issues when using Rotosound strings with silked ends muting the sound. I moved to Ernie Ball Hybrids but the overwarp would make the string buzz on occassion. My solution was to use ball-ends to bring the overwrap back so that it didn't rest on the saddle. I'll try to attach a photo...

I emailed both Gibson and Rotosound.

Gibson's response was:

Thank you for your interest in Gibson guitars.

We have not systematically tested Roto Sounds on our basses and have not heard of the problem you describe in particular. However it sounds like one of those things that every guitar or bass player will encounter along the way once in a while when trying different gear. Your way of fixing it seems adequate and the most simple and best solution in this case!

Rotosound responded too:

No not had this problem before and I will explain why. The length of the twist forming the eye is a standard length. It is referred to as a European ¾. Our core machines that make such are designed that way and have produced such for decades. The North American eye is slightly shorter around 5/8” but weaker. Your problem with this Gibson model is that the distance between the saddle and anchor point is really too short to take standard strings it seems. Way back originally in the late fifties/early sixties scale lengths and eye dimensions were designed around the Fender Precision and have not caused us any undue problems over the years.
It is a shame sometimes that instrument manufacturers do not consider the string fitment as if an afterthought which can give the owner a lot of grief later down the line.
Some slight mods, as you have done seems the only remedy but you have to watch the vibration. You should try the string on another bass though to ascertain whether it is the set up of the string itself.

I'm now very tempted to try the Hipshot replacement.
[/quote]

Buy the Hipshot Supertone and be done with Gibsons nonsense design