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GOD.....I LOVE FUSION

BassBus

By BassBus,
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Chris2112 Mentor

Chris2112

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[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1348478728' post='1813947']
I went through this phase..... :lol:

What hindsight tells me is that a lot of this stuff suffered from a superficiality that meant it struggled to live up to the standards of great Jazz and often lacked the musical interaction that, for me, defined the greatest Jazz.
[/quote]

But then jazz usually lacks the flair and passion of great fusion, that, for me, defined the greatest fusion records. Jazz is all well and good, especially if you're hosting a dinner for old folks at the bowling green.

But years of listening and research have taught me that whilst fusion grew from jazz, there is often a gulf between them in terms of their ability to interest me. I don't buy the lazy argument that fusion was poor man's jazz, amped up for the rock listeners. Rather, I would say it grew from jazz where jazz had become staid and turgid. As much as fusion players can be accused of excess and superficial displays of technical facility, more often than not I believe this stems from a desire to push the instrument and the music to it's limit. For even the most dedicated fusion players have had quiet, feelsome tracks. For every [i]Havona [/i]there is a track like [i]A Remark You Made. [/i]The same argument could be quickoly modified and thrown back at jazz; namely that it's players often turn out boring records, supposedly expecting some kudos and appropriate praise because it's jazz.

At their closest, the bridge between jazz and fusion can be little more than electric instruments vs acoustic instruments because the music is so similar. But there are extremes at either end, from overly-fanciful fusion records to lazy jazz plodders. That's the thing with jazz, it often seems quite soulless and self-indulgent.


To recommend some more great fusion though...

I love this track. Very angular sounds, and Anthony Jackson laying down the bass with some serious groove. I have played this track for friends before and they say it sounds 'dated' because of the synth sounds. I think they're very much 'of their time' and the track is all the better for it.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb8k53ZzJbc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb8k53ZzJbc[/url]

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Bilbo Grand Master

Bilbo

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[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1348696818' post='1817206']
But then jazz usually lacks the flair and passion of great fusion, that, for me, defined the greatest fusion records. Jazz is all well and good, especially if you're hosting a dinner for old folks at the bowling green.[/quote]

Jazz usually lacks the flair and passion of great fusion.... :lol: What have you been listening to?

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1348696818' post='1817206']

At their closest, the bridge between jazz and fusion can be little more than electric instruments vs acoustic instruments because the music is so similar. But there are extremes at either end, from overly-fanciful fusion records to lazy jazz plodders. That's the thing with jazz, it often seems quite soulless and self-indulgent.

[/quote]

I don't think there is much room for that kind of product anymore, Chris. There is a lot of variation in Jazz now but there aren't many 'plodders' left. There was a tendency in the 50s and 60s to release lp after lp of standards and blues tunes that were often stale and preditable. I agree, but Jazz woke up a long time ago and those kinds of recordings are increasingly rare, unless you classify that Buble/Peyroux/Norah Jones/Jamie Cullem cabaret stuff as Jazz.

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lowdown Grand Master

lowdown

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[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1348696818' post='1817206']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb8k53ZzJbc[/media]
[/quote]

Great Album all round [agree about the Synth sounds and being better]

I remember buying it for about £20.00 or so around the mid 90's,
now you can download from iTunes for about $10.00 :lol:

Garry

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BassBus Mentor

BassBus

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[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1348696818' post='1817206']
But then jazz usually lacks the flair and passion of great fusion...
[/quote]

As Bilbo says what have you been listening to. If you listen to the clip of Wynton Marsallis and Frank Vignola playing Sweet Georgia Brown on youtube I don't think you could really apply that statement to Jazz.

Some might say you run the risk of becoming a musical snob with statements like that. Every music has its good points and bad. There is good and bad jazz as there is good and bad fusion, as there is good and bad rock, as there is...

The advantage we have these days is the internet to let us hear all that good and bad music. We can then make up our minds before we buy the stuff. Keep an open mind and you'll find the good stuff in any genre.

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Chris2112 Mentor

Chris2112

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[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1348745582' post='1817609']

Some might say you run the risk of becoming a musical snob with statements like that.
[/quote]

You will note all I have done there in the phrase you have quoted is to paraphrase the sentence that Bilbo had already written, and just changed 'jazz' for 'fusion', essentially giving the phrase the opposite meaning of what Bilbo had said. But if some might say that Bilbo and I are running the risk of becoming musical snobs with statements like that, that's a risk we'll just have to take!




[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1348735826' post='1817418']
Great Album all round [agree about the Synth sounds and being better]

I remember buying it for about £20.00 or so around the mid 90's,
now you can download from iTunes for about $10.00 :lol:

Garry
[/quote]

Tell me about it. A few years ago I was buying as much of Jonas Hellborg's back catalogue as I could get my hands on. Some of the records costing as much as £25 a pop! A lot of them are still unavailable on the internet though. Some of them, I wonder if Jonas even has a copy!

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visog Experienced

visog

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[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1348771606' post='1818064']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGh43wP_kjE[/media]
[/quote]

This was Jaco wasn't it? Can't imagine he was very fond of it. Hated fusion and said so! Plus it doesn't swing, another bug-bear of his, and a whole other debate. Personally I quite like it. This album's also got Stanley on it singing too on a great track.

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lowdown Grand Master

lowdown

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[quote name='funkypenguin' timestamp='1348779693' post='1818234']
My transcription of XYZ is up in theory and technique somewhere if anyone is interested in having a crack at it :)
[/quote]

Yep, i grabbed that a while back - and a very fine transcription it is, of a very fine tune. ;)


Garry

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funkypenguin Rising Star

funkypenguin

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[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1348855676' post='1819249']
Yep, i grabbed that a while back - and a very fine transcription it is, of a very fine tune. ;)


Garry
[/quote]

Cheers! :) glad you liked it.

Garrison is more than worthy of a place in this thread. Im determined to see him play live at some point in the future! Family starts around 0:50

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTPcVibjhM&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTPcVibjhM&feature=related[/url]

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blamelouis Enthusiast

blamelouis

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Best jazz fusion band on te go at the moment is the German trio Jazz Pistols .
I have really gotten into their stuff recently and they are very technical but soulful as well .
They do a great version of teentown ,birdland , sex in a pan and chick coreas Spain .

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=0_TrKZFmWSk

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=ZMXlVrIDqgg

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funkypenguin Rising Star

funkypenguin

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[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1349001043' post='1820450']
I have no idea what fusion is, but the clips above that I listened to are diabolical. To me, it's not even music. I 'm happy if you like it and that's your thing, but an utter waste of time to me.
[/quote]

In what way is it not music? not having a pop, im just curious at to why you think that :)

try this

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLXpEt42W-8&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLXpEt42W-8&feature=related[/url]

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The Dark Lord Collaborator

The Dark Lord

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[quote name='funkypenguin' timestamp='1349026706' post='1820838']
In what way is it not music? not having a pop, im just curious at to why you think that :)

try this

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLXpEt42W-8&feature=related[/media]
[/quote]
Yeah, I appreciate that ...... but this particular clip reminds me of a demo cassette that I once got with a portable tape recorder. Sort of musak rather than music. If you like it ... cool ..... but, to me, there isn't enough time left to be listening to this. Curious production on this song too - the guitar and bass appear to be coming through in the centre of the stereo field on top of each other. Not for me.

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