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In Ear Monitors - help needed...


MoJoKe

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The BC IEM team is kicking ass!

RE: Helix talk, anybody that knows me will know that I progressed from the Microbass2 to a Kemper quite a while back and it was a revelation. I have pushed a friend down the Kemper/Helix route too (he's looking at both but is probably going to go Helix - because to be fair, it's more friendly to edit)... and his trio runs a XR18 that I've recently split (routing wise) for him so half the XLR inputs are for front of house and half are strictly for monitoring purposes. They only tend to use 7 or 8 inputs (depending what they do with the snare) for FOH so that mixer lends itself nicely to doing that. It means (and I think I have talked about this earlier in the thread) that you can run monitors completely independently and run separate processing like EQs and fx etc per channel . I'm at the other end of the scale where I am now looking at getting another 32 channel desk and connect via Dante so I duplicate the inputs to get the extended band on stereo IEMs - so effectively having a FOH and Monitor mixer... but all auxes are used for monitoring (can tap in direct to Dante network for Waves Multirack too!). I can do 7 stereo mixes at the moment, so the ability to do another 7/8 stereo mixes would be great. (4 singers, guitar, bass, drums, percussionist, keys, 3 horns). Or I could sack off Multirack and get separate feeds to the drummer's stool and nice kinetic feedback platform for me... Hmm...

In some ways, my IEM is better than front of house - I run all the instruments in stereo, whereas they are mono (deliberately) out front.

Anyway, I used to be a non believer in this modelling stuff... but I have to say now, this isn't the same gear as days gone by. Even when I first tried the Kemper it didn't do it for me... but now, 5 firmware revisions down the line, I would call anybody a liar who says that they can tell the difference. You can't say that you've tried a POD so you are not interested in a Helix. Completely different beasts.

Edited by EBS_freak
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Agree 100%. I have been blown away by the helix and it's interface is really user friendly. I have used a POD XT before and was totally underwhelmed. I now can have a punchy gk rig for chilli Peppers songs, a fat SVT rig for rock and any combos of overdrives, distortions or other fx and even have the drive control of an amp routed to the expression pedal so I have infinite drive control under foot for when guitarist is soloing etc. It's insane and through a single RCF 745 it not only sounds really realistic it has heft that shakes the building if necessary. I've got a pair of FR800s on order for use with my rock trio now too.
I think more than anything tho the cab emulation has made iems even better for bass.

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[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1504080717' post='3362478']
So... How would I configure my X18 to run stereo to a P2, or do I need a fancy lead?
[/quote]

You would need to make a dual balanced TRS to unbalanced stereo and use two of the AUX outputs to feed it (assuming you weren't using headphones or 17-18).
Actually on the X18 I suppose you could use dual jack plugs with the centre of each plug going to 2 & 3 and the sleeves going to 1.

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[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1504820603' post='3367649']

Pretty much. And to double as pa in another project I do.
[/quote]

Much to my dismay, I have an unused pair of FR800's gathering dust due to being unable to get 5 people in the same place at the same time!

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[quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1504820852' post='3367651']
Much to my dismay, I have an unused pair of FR800's gathering dust due to being unable to get 5 people in the same place at the same time!
[/quote]
[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1504858418' post='3367774']
Want to sell them?
[/quote]

I'd have torn your arm off to buy them if I hadn't already had mine torn off by an unrelenting stream of repair and house bills. Anyone know what the lottery numbers will be?

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More UE900s arrived to my friends... straight off to be reshelled.

I'm still pondering over a Rednet PCIe to supercharge my Dante solution plans... Hmm... Im just pondering over the latency - OK for front of house.. but defo concerned about inears performance when using Multirack. Im going to be right on the cusp of 5ms... which may be a bit cack for IEM...

Edited by EBS_freak
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  • 2 weeks later...

Received a set of used UE900s the other day from another forum user. These things are a revelation! Haven't tried playing bass through them yet, but listening to music I'm familiar with (I thought!) I'm hearing detail I've never heard before. Most impressive...

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[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1505894589' post='3374971']
Received a set of used UE900s the other day from another forum user. These things are a revelation! Haven't tried playing bass through them yet, but listening to music I'm familiar with (I thought!) I'm hearing detail I've never heard before. Most impressive...
[/quote]
So what's that plan now? Use them for gigging?

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1505922428' post='3375267']
So what's that plan now? Use them for gigging?
[/quote]

My original intention was to put together a silent band rehearsal setup for home, based around an X18, an electronic drum kit, a few PODs (or the like - iPad running Bias FX in my case I would think) and a decent set of in-ears. Still working on the drum kit element of it (converting an acoustic kit with mesh heads and DIY triggers) but I have almost everything else - need mics of course! The last thing a (currently) non-singing bass player would think of...

I'm without a band at the minute but hoping this'll be the spark I need/have been lacking of late! Kind of "if you build it, they will come" sort of thing...

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Sounds interesting. Silent rehearsals are also a bizarre - but somewhat rewarding experience. Being able to hear absolutely everything certainly makes mistakes come to the limelight very quickly! Nowhere to hide!

Hope you manage to get a band established. Startups are always the most difficult!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wonder if anyone can help.

My band wanted to use samples which led to using electronic gear with midi connectivity. We wanted to use a click track to keep time throughout the songs but particularly for when samples were playing and we weren't. We are using a lap top to generate the click track. We bought an uber cheap IEM system from Gear 4 Music, which works, kind of. The problem is that the click is really harsh and has to be used very loudly to be heard above our instruments (we are not a loud band). we have tried using softer clicks sounds but this hasn't helped. Does the problem lie with the cheap IEM system or at least with the earphones? Are these accentuating the attack of the clicks? Would more expensive in ears solve this?

Also, as the in ears dull the sound of our instruments - we are now looking at micing everyone up. This wasn't our original intention as we are a 3-piece in a relatively small room and can hear each other well enough when not using the in ears. Or is this simply a natural path to follow in order to get what we want. I hope that made sense?

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One of the bands I play in plays to click and they are fed through the IEMs as you are. Things I would suggest is changing the click sound (you already have done this), compressing the click (if you have the desk to do that), eqing the click...

You may be right though, the companders in cheaper IEM systems can be pretty poor. I hate what the PSM200 does to bass and the highend. After doing a couple of gigs on a PSM200, I vowed never to use them ever again as my ears just seemed so knkackered afterwards.

You may be better not going wireless - you should be able to get something together that removes the radio and compander out of the equation to see if it's the IEM system that is the source of your problems - try a wired solution. I have to say though, with the EW300 and PSM3/900 systems that I use, it's never been an issue - but I appreciate that they are a considerable investment - however they are about as close to a wired connection that you can get.

With regards to IEMs, I would always suggesting micing everything up that you would like to hear - and assume that you can't hear anything that you haven't miced up. You can go to town if you like... but for an example, on drums, you could get away with a single condenser over the right shoulder (in the recorderman position, pointing at the snare) and a kick drum - there isn't always the requirement to mic everything up. However, if you are micing everything up for FOH, you can utilise that for your IEMs.

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[quote name='burno70' timestamp='1507223497' post='3384057']
When you say a wired solution what do you mean? We found it difficult to stay in time during breaks in the song when samples were playing etc.
[/quote]
Instead of using a wireless system, use a headphone amp with a physical cable that plugs directly into your mixer's aux send.

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[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1505977873' post='3375549']
My original intention was to put together a silent band rehearsal setup for home, based around an X18, an electronic drum kit, a few PODs (or the like - iPad running Bias FX in my case I would think) and a decent set of in-ears. Still working on the drum kit element of it (converting an acoustic kit with mesh heads and DIY triggers) but I have almost everything else - need mics of course!
[/quote]

This is exactly how we have just started to rehearse with one of my projects. We converted my shed to a soundproof box and decorated it like a studio and fitted some cheap led par cans up. We can now shoot videos at rehearsals too - nothing fancy but it helps. Setup is -

Converted acoustic drum kit running from cheap yamaha brain into Superior Drummer
Real Hi Hat (small compromise in order to retain natural sound and feel for drummer)
Guitars through POD HD500
Bass through Helix
Vocal Mics

All goes into Behringer XR18
All band members on wired in ears.

Sounds hideous (albeit not too loud) in the room if you take your iems out but sounds heavenly with them in. Minimal setup time as it all lives permanently in the shed. Takes approx 20mins to get a useable audio mix in post production which we then sync with the video footage. I can usually knock out 2-3 little videos for our social media etc in about 1-2hours the next day after each rehearsal.

Most recent video from the shed (smoke machine has since been removed from shed lol)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90HZlwc1760[/media]

Edited by mrtcat
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I have acquired a couple of sets of Shure PSM 700 IEMs via fleabay but they have no rack mounting hardware. I have sourced some rack ears but have no idea where to go for the fly leads and face grommets for the aerials.

Can anyone please direct me to a supplier?

Thanks.

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[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1507909992' post='3388772']
This is exactly how we have just started to rehearse with one of my projects. We converted my shed to a soundproof box and decorated it like a studio and fitted some cheap led par cans up. We can now shoot videos at rehearsals too - nothing fancy but it helps. Setup is -

Converted acoustic drum kit running from cheap yamaha brain into Superior Drummer
Real Hi Hat (small compromise in order to retain natural sound and feel for drummer)
Guitars through POD HD500
Bass through Helix
Vocal Mics

All goes into Behringer XR18
All band members on wired in ears.

Sounds hideous (albeit not too loud) in the room if you take your iems out but sounds heavenly with them in. Minimal setup time as it all lives permanently in the shed. Takes approx 20mins to get a useable audio mix in post production which we then sync with the video footage. I can usually knock out 2-3 little videos for our social media etc in about 1-2hours the next day after each rehearsal.

Most recent video from the shed (smoke machine has since been removed from shed lol)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90HZlwc1760[/media]
[/quote]

"Great minds..." and all that! Great idea for showcasing your band.

Hi-hats seem to be the biggest stumbling block with acoustic drum conversions - closely followed by triple zone cymbals/rides! I'm about to buy a megadrum module as the brain for my acoustic conversion, using EZ Drummer on my Mac mini for the sounds. I'm reluctant to use real hi-hats as I plan to set this all up in the house and, having 2 young kids, minimal noise is a necessity. Garage conversion to ultra man-cave is the plan, but that's a few years away yet!

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[quote name='GrahamT' timestamp='1508239584' post='3390705']
I have acquired a couple of sets of Shure PSM 700 IEMs via fleabay but they have no rack mounting hardware. I have sourced some rack ears but have no idea where to go for the fly leads and face grommets for the aerials.

Can anyone please direct me to a supplier?

Thanks.
[/quote]

Google the following -

"bnc 50 ohm cable"
"bnc 50 ohm bulkhead connector"

Make sure you get the right gender ends!

PS I assume the frequencies they are operating on are legal... :ph34r:

Edited by EBS_freak
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