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Bergantino CN212 vs Genz Benz NX2-212T vs BF Super 12T


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#1 tonyf

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:40 PM

All,

I've been umming and arrrrring (is that how your spell it?) for a while now on getting a lightweight 2x12 to replace my wonderful but heavy as fook EBS Proline 410. Whilst I love the power, output and just plain old loveliness of the Proline, I loathe the size and weight.

Having played through a HD212 at Bass Direct a while ago, I was blown away at how wonder it was. However, it was a fair old chunker for a 2x12 so that kinda rules out that in terms of lightweight.

The question is, has anyone any views or insight into the above cabs in terms of tonal and output compared to the Proline I've got.

Has anyone referenced the Berg HD against the new CN? How do they compare tonally? What about the GB cab?

By the way, I guess I should mention that my head is a GB Streamliner 900.

Cheers
Mr Undecided of Solihull
T
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#2 molan

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:47 PM

In general terms I think the Berg cabs are in a different league from the other brands you've mentioned in terms of build quality, fit & finish etc.

I haven't heard the CN212 yet but my local dealer will have them later this week so I'll be able to hear it first hand then :)

Edited by molan, 14 May 2013 - 11:47 PM.

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#3 IanA

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:50 AM

View Postmolan, on 14 May 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

In general terms I think the Berg cabs are in a different league from the other brands you've mentioned in terms of build quality, fit & finish etc.

I haven't heard the CN212 yet but my local dealer will have them later this week so I'll be able to hear it first hand then :)
+1, Bergs are sublime.
The CN is a little less fat in the low mids compared to the HD, it is also a little brighter in the high mids.
Having owned the HD212 I can honestly say that it it the best cab that I have ever used. Weight was the only reason I let it go.
The Genz is getting some great feedback on Talkbass and will save you some cash !
Mark does have the CN cabs so it is worth a trip to Warwick.
Ken Jung has some clips on YouTube that might be helpful, he is also happy to discuss via pm on Talkbass.

#4 niceguyhomer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:56 AM

If money were no object, I'd buy Bergs every time. I currently have a GB NX2 and it's a great all rounder. It's not very expensive, it's extremely light, it's loud and punchy and a big improvement in every respect on the Markbass 104HF I had before it. I'd definitely recommend an NX2 if you're looking at the price of Bergs and finding it hard to justify spending that much (even though they're worth every penny IMHO).
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#5 risingson

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:07 AM

I haven't tried enough cabs to give you a rundown of how it sounds compared to your Genz rig for example, but the CN212 I got to play paired with an Aggie TH500 is making me think I should sell my TC rig soonish.
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#6 kennyrodgers

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:52 AM

I had the pleasure of listening to and having a quick blast with my Thumb Bass on Homers' NX2 last week at one of his band rehearsals. I played that particular room last November and really struggled to get a decent sound in there, it was boom city.

Listening to the band I thought NX2 sounded great, it was really punchy and every note popped out even on the E string. Nice warm low mids that hit you in the chest and clear all the way to the top. Of axis was very good to and the drummer also commented on how well he could hear the cab. Although ever so slightly boomy and was ever so slightly because of the room the cab still cut through very well. It's super light weight which is a bonus and although it maxxed out my budget I ordered one from Mark last week, I just hope it gets here for the weekend !!
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#7 Conan

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:10 AM

Would now be the appropriate time to mention the Barefaced Super 12? :rolleyes:
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#8 fretmeister

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:15 AM

I wanted a Berg HD212 but I didn't like the weight.

So I bought a pair of HD112 instead. Job done.

WANTED: Rack Mount Kit for a Genz Benz Shuttle amp.


Pretty pretty please!


#9 tonyf

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:25 AM

Thanks all so far. I really appreciate your input.

My heart says Berg having been blown away by the HD212 I tried at Bass Direct. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Mark has such a unique skill in knowing what you're after even before you know yourself :D

My head says GB. It's the same make as the head (not that is that important) and the reviews (including the bass whisper's demo of one with a Streamliner on youtube) are really glowing. It's a great cab.

Whichever route I go, I need something which will be a much used tool and therefore needs to be robust, tonally flexible and above all be the right sound for the job. I've now got a pretty full diary now with the soul function band so justifying the extra "dollar" (as the 'yoof apparently say nowadays) is not a problem. It needs to be right, I don't want to be halfway through a gig thinking "I saved a few quid on CAB A but it's not quite as good as the more expensive CAB B". Or more importantly "I spent all that money on CAB B thinking because it was more expensive than CAB A but actually, CAB A suited me better".

I guess I really need to A/B them with Mark at Bass Direct and then work out how I'm going to afford one without sacrificing either a kidney or perhaps a family member or pet.

;)
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#10 EBS_freak

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:49 AM

The Berg cabs that I have tried are great and Genz are great. You can do no wrong with either. Both are made well and sound great... they sound different but both are top cabs - you'll have to trial them to see which you prefer naturally. I'm awaiting the arrival of the new Berg cabs to try but the NeoX212T would be my Genz choice of cab.

They sound worlds apart from the EBS you have at the moment - mainly down to the tweeter. Have you not considered the 2x12 EBS Neo? I reckon it's the best cab that they have ever done. Defo worth adding to the melting pot.

At this level, there is no better, just different.

#11 chris_b

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:57 AM

You can't go wrong with any of the cabs you mention, and with that amp they will all make you sound good.

There are no downsides to these 212 cabs but they have various shades of difference, so if that slim difference in tone is important you've got to listen to them before you decide.

5 years ago I bought my first Bergantino cab and that's been my yard stick ever since, but I chose 112 cabs because of the weight factor. The Bergs could be seriously challenged if Alex brings out a new 112 cab but, to my ear, my choice would still be Bergantino by a fraction over the S12T.
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:30 AM

Love the look of Bergs but I wonder how much better, if at all, the new NEO's will be over the discontinued AE's.

I think I would like better the ceramics in the style of the HD/AE or CN cabs.

#13 niceguyhomer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:08 AM

View Postkennyrodg, on 15 May 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

I had the pleasure of listening to and having a quick blast with my Thumb Bass on Homers' NX2 last week at one of his band rehearsals. I played that particular room last November and really struggled to get a decent sound in there, it was boom city.

Listening to the band I thought NX2 sounded great, it was really punchy and every note popped out even on the E string. Nice warm low mids that hit you in the chest and clear all the way to the top. Of axis was very good to and the drummer also commented on how well he could hear the cab. Although ever so slightly boomy and was ever so slightly because of the room the cab still cut through very well. It's super light weight which is a bonus and although it maxxed out my budget I ordered one from Mark last week, I just hope it gets here for the weekend !!
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#14 tonyf

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

View PostEBS_freak, on 15 May 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

The Berg cabs that I have tried are great and Genz are great. You can do no wrong with either. Both are made well and sound great... they sound different but both are top cabs - you'll have to trial them to see which you prefer naturally. I'm awaiting the arrival of the new Berg cabs to try but the NeoX212T would be my Genz choice of cab.

They sound worlds apart from the EBS you have at the moment - mainly down to the tweeter. Have you not considered the 2x12 EBS Neo? I reckon it's the best cab that they have ever done. Defo worth adding to the melting pot.

At this level, there is no better, just different.

Hi Russ,

Haven't tried the EBS NEO 212 but was on the verge of impulse buying one of them a while ago when a used one came up on the For Sale forum. Dunno why I didn't go for it, just felt I needed to hear it first and didn't want to take a flyer.

Guess everyone's been spot on about the choice. There's no bad/good at this price point, just different :)

T
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#15 tonyf

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:09 AM

View PostConan, on 15 May 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Would now be the appropriate time to mention the Barefaced Super 12? :rolleyes:

I tried Markstuk's Super12T a while ago when he graciously asked me over to his to A/B one against a Proline 410 he also had. It was indeed a righteous cabinet and I was really impressed.
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#16 wateroftyne

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:28 AM

View Postchris_b, on 15 May 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

The Bergs could be seriously challenged if Alex brings out a new 112 cab

Yes.

Yes, they could.
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#17 alexclaber

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:33 AM

View Postwateroftyne, on 15 May 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Yes, they could.

;)

#18 IanA

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 15 May 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:



Yes.

Yes, they could.

Not for tone, fit, and finish.... Maybe for volume. There are 12's already on the market that are louder such as the ML112, but it sounds nothing like the Berg.
All down to personal preference

#19 wateroftyne

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostIana, on 15 May 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Not for tone

You can't judge something you ain't heard yet.

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#20 alexclaber

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostIana, on 15 May 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Not for tone, fit, and finish....

Or something you haven't seen yet! And like you say, tone is down to personal preference - one of our earliest Big Baby T customers had a fault with his cabs and they had to come back for repair. He said: "Been having nightmares about having to use the Bergantino's , that must surely say something for your creations !" :P

#21 EBS_freak

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:37 PM

View Postalexclaber, on 15 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Or something you haven't seen yet! And like you say, tone is down to personal preference - one of our earliest Big Baby T customers had a fault with his cabs and they had to come back for repair. He said: "Been having nightmares about having to use the Bergantino's , that must surely say something for your creations !" :P

He may have been very protective of his Bergs and was wary about scuffing the Bergs up at the local jam night where all the knuckle draggers abuse the house band gear.

Edited by EBS_freak, 15 May 2013 - 01:40 PM.


#22 chris_b

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostIana, on 15 May 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

....Not for tone, fit, and finish.... Maybe for volume. There are 12's already on the market that are louder such as the ML112, but it sounds nothing like the Berg...

Your source of information relating to Barefaced cabs seems to be limited.

Barefaced cabs are not all about volume and I'd put their tone is in the same class as Bergantino.

I dropped into see Happy Jack's gig on Saturday and he was using his Compact and Midget. From every point in the room his tone was huge.
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#23 alexclaber

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:08 PM

View PostEBS_freak, on 15 May 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

He may have been very protective of his Bergs and was wary about scuffing the Bergs up at the local jam night where all the knuckle draggers abuse the house band gear.

Touché! ;)

#24 Ghost_Bass

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:13 PM

I wouldn't buy a Berg or a GB to replace my S12T and not because of the volume but because of the tone. Clarity and uncoloured, Berg and GB aren't quite like that, close, but...!

If Alex and WoT are talking about what i think they're talking i better start scrapping out money from the bottom of the couch :D

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#25 stingrayPete1977

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:15 PM

From what I have seen and heard all of the cabs mentioned should be brilliant cabs, also I can't see that the Bergs are any better built than the Genz ones, the uber range look to be a cut above the lot so if money is no object I'd try an uber?
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#26 JTUK

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

View PostGhost_Bass, on 15 May 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

I wouldn't buy a Berg or a GB to replace my S12T and not because of the volume but because of the tone. Clarity and uncoloured, Berg and GB aren't quite like that, close, but...!


Your amp is very coloured... not that it makes it good or bad, just that the TF is a very tonally coloured amp, IME.

#27 Musicman20

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM

Surely it doesn't matter if its a little coloured, as long as its a good, well built cabinet with a nice tone.

All this talk of clinical tone makes me think no one wants a personality!

Edited by Musicman20, 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM.


#28 Musicman20

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM

PS - I've been deciding between the GB and Berg for a few weeks. Still not sure which to buy.

#29 alexclaber

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostMusicman20, on 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

All this talk of clinical tone makes me think no one wants a personality!

Did you post on the wrong thread? Not a single person has mentioned 'clinical tone', apart from you! ;)

#30 Ghost_Bass

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostJTUK, on 15 May 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Your amp is very coloured... not that it makes it good or bad, just that the TF is a very tonally coloured amp, IME.

The TF can be coloured but it also can be very flat, just a mather of settings.

View PostMusicman20, on 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Surely it doesn't matter if its a little coloured, as long as its a good, well built cabinet with a nice tone.

All this talk of clinical tone makes me think no one wants a personality!

I like the personality of the bass to shine through, not the one of the cab, that wont go through FOH ;) (i run my DI pre-eq and always use PA support)

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