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Bergantino CN212 vs Genz Benz NX2-212T vs BF Super 12T


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#21 EBS_freak

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:37 PM

View Postalexclaber, on 15 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Or something you haven't seen yet! And like you say, tone is down to personal preference - one of our earliest Big Baby T customers had a fault with his cabs and they had to come back for repair. He said: "Been having nightmares about having to use the Bergantino's , that must surely say something for your creations !" :P

He may have been very protective of his Bergs and was wary about scuffing the Bergs up at the local jam night where all the knuckle draggers abuse the house band gear.

Edited by EBS_freak, 15 May 2013 - 01:40 PM.

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#22 chris_b

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostIana, on 15 May 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

....Not for tone, fit, and finish.... Maybe for volume. There are 12's already on the market that are louder such as the ML112, but it sounds nothing like the Berg...

Your source of information relating to Barefaced cabs seems to be limited.

Barefaced cabs are not all about volume and I'd put their tone is in the same class as Bergantino.

I dropped into see Happy Jack's gig on Saturday and he was using his Compact and Midget. From every point in the room his tone was huge.
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#23 alexclaber

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:08 PM

View PostEBS_freak, on 15 May 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

He may have been very protective of his Bergs and was wary about scuffing the Bergs up at the local jam night where all the knuckle draggers abuse the house band gear.

Touché! ;)

#24 Ghost_Bass

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:13 PM

I wouldn't buy a Berg or a GB to replace my S12T and not because of the volume but because of the tone. Clarity and uncoloured, Berg and GB aren't quite like that, close, but...!

If Alex and WoT are talking about what i think they're talking i better start scrapping out money from the bottom of the couch :D

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#25 stingrayPete1977

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:15 PM

From what I have seen and heard all of the cabs mentioned should be brilliant cabs, also I can't see that the Bergs are any better built than the Genz ones, the uber range look to be a cut above the lot so if money is no object I'd try an uber?
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#26 JTUK

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

View PostGhost_Bass, on 15 May 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

I wouldn't buy a Berg or a GB to replace my S12T and not because of the volume but because of the tone. Clarity and uncoloured, Berg and GB aren't quite like that, close, but...!


Your amp is very coloured... not that it makes it good or bad, just that the TF is a very tonally coloured amp, IME.

#27 Musicman20

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM

Surely it doesn't matter if its a little coloured, as long as its a good, well built cabinet with a nice tone.

All this talk of clinical tone makes me think no one wants a personality!

Edited by Musicman20, 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM.


#28 Musicman20

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM

PS - I've been deciding between the GB and Berg for a few weeks. Still not sure which to buy.

#29 alexclaber

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostMusicman20, on 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

All this talk of clinical tone makes me think no one wants a personality!

Did you post on the wrong thread? Not a single person has mentioned 'clinical tone', apart from you! ;)

#30 Ghost_Bass

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostJTUK, on 15 May 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Your amp is very coloured... not that it makes it good or bad, just that the TF is a very tonally coloured amp, IME.

The TF can be coloured but it also can be very flat, just a mather of settings.

View PostMusicman20, on 15 May 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Surely it doesn't matter if its a little coloured, as long as its a good, well built cabinet with a nice tone.

All this talk of clinical tone makes me think no one wants a personality!

I like the personality of the bass to shine through, not the one of the cab, that wont go through FOH ;) (i run my DI pre-eq and always use PA support)

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#31 Merton

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:06 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 15 May 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:



Yes.

Yes, they could.

Hehehe ;)
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#32 IanA

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:21 PM

View Postalexclaber, on 15 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:



Or something you haven't seen yet! And like you say, tone is down to personal preference - one of our earliest Big Baby T customers had a fault with his cabs and they had to come back for repair. He said: "Been having nightmares about having to use the Bergantino's , that must surely say something for your creations !" :P

Alex,
Please don't get defensive, I have just not found anything to date that I like better than Bergs.
My gigs range from 200 -2000 people and are really diverse musically, Jims cabs work for me in all situations. If your new cab is the biz who knows I may be tempted.....:)

#33 Musicman20

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:02 PM

View Postalexclaber, on 15 May 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:



Did you post on the wrong thread? Not a single person has mentioned 'clinical tone', apart from you! ;)

Uncoloured / flat - can come across clinical.

I think without input from Jim Bergantino and/or Genz, this whole thread is rather unfair.

I think we should put the 'complaint' about the Berg cabs into context.

#34 skychaserhigh

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:44 PM

Check out the Vanderkley cabs too.Superb quality and tone.

#35 IanA

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:17 PM

View Postskychaserhigh, on 15 May 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Check out the Vanderkley cabs too.Superb quality and tone.
Very nice cabs.

#36 molan

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

Started unpacking a big old pallet of Bergs today :)

Opened up a CN112 and a CN212 first - they look great as a stack!

I have a feeling the Carvin BXR1500 (which happily goes down to 2 ohms) may be getting a run out tomorrow. . .
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#37 obbm

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:14 PM

I will be gigging my recently acquired CN212 tomorrow night - that is all.
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#38 Merton

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:16 PM

View Postobbm, on 15 May 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

I will be gigging my recently acquired CN212 tomorrow night - that is all.
Won't you need a bass and an amp too Dave? :P
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#39 obbm

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostMerton, on 15 May 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Won't you need a bass and an amp too Dave? :P

Doh!! :D

Air guitar and virtual amp of course.

Edited by obbm, 15 May 2013 - 09:27 PM.

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#40 GUI101

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:31 PM

Obbm,

Any chance of a review following the gig??
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#41 obbm

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostGUI101, on 15 May 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Obbm,

Any chance of a review following the gig??

For the past year I've been using a pair of Schroeder 1212Ls and I can confirm that it is light and loud and should be a single cab solution however it needs to run-in. I have a gig tomorrow and another on Saturday so that should help. Any sound quality review would be a bit pointless seeing as I'm 3/4 deaf and have no HF and asymetric hearing corrected normally by hearing-aids, which I don't/can't wear when gigging. Far better for someone with good hearing to do a review.
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#42 JTUK

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:01 PM

View PostGhost_Bass, on 15 May 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

The TF can be coloured but it also can be very flat, just a mather of settings.


How would you do that?

#43 tonyf

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:16 PM

View PostGUI101, on 15 May 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Obbm,

Any chance of a review following the gig??

+1 :-)
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#44 Ghost_Bass

    Still wondering if he should had registered on BC... too much GA

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:37 AM

View PostJTUK, on 15 May 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

How would you do that?

Use the switch on SS, don't use Timbre and Enhance and rest is on the EQ (ususally i take away some bass and add some upper mids, light changes)
But to be fair, the sound that is working for me onstage involves using the Enhance and, if i'm with the Sandberg i'll change the switch to Valve so i can get some vintage warmth, i'm not a flat (clinical) purist. All i'm saying is that i like and want my cabs to be flat because they're only there to put out what i'm putting in and i want the changes i make on bass (or amp) EQ to be properly translated outside, not masked/changed by the cab.

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#45 Ghost_Bass

    Still wondering if he should had registered on BC... too much GA

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

View PostMusicman20, on 15 May 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Uncoloured / flat - can come across clinical.
(...)

This isn't the case here, what me and others here are talking about is flat response from the cab in order to reproduce as faithfull as phisically possible the sound that you're feeding into it. If the bass and/or the amp have a personality that will shine through the cab.

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#46 JTUK

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:27 PM

View PostGhost_Bass, on 16 May 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Use the switch on SS, don't use Timbre and Enhance and rest is on the EQ (ususally i take away some bass and add some upper mids, light changes)
But to be fair, the sound that is working for me onstage involves using the Enhance and, if i'm with the Sandberg i'll change the switch to Valve so i can get some vintage warmth, i'm not a flat (clinical) purist. All i'm saying is that i like and want my cabs to be flat because they're only there to put out what i'm putting in and i want the changes i make on bass (or amp) EQ to be properly translated outside, not masked/changed by the cab.

As I understand it the enhance can't be 'turned off'.. the dial will give you various mappings and colour..which is why I said the amp is inherrently coloured.
The 4 band para is very powerful..but again there is your colour if you switch that in.
The timbre can be dialed zero'ed..but it is also arguable whether that is flat.
This is no different to a whole host of other amps that have filters or internal mapping or bias controls or whatever you wish to call them.
Unless you can turn them off or disable them... you aren't getting 'flat'.. and that is without fetting what colour you cab or pickups may do.
and don't even think about the effects chain..????? :lol:

Does flat mean the sound of your bass's acoustic sound amplified..? to some it might, others have their own definition.
My most neutral and best, as it happens.., sounding amp has quite basic and sutble EQ but if the bass doesn't sound good in the first place... there is not a lot I can
do to affect it.
Fortunately, I love the way it works.
I also like my TF amp as a backup but the sound is different and more mechanical by comparison.
If I didn't have them A/B'd I'd be less aware of the difference... but that is why we A/B..

Personally, I don't think flat is the holy grail anyway... you go with the sound that pleases you however you get it..
but KISS in the signal chain is not a bad way to start..

#47 Ghost_Bass

    Still wondering if he should had registered on BC... too much GA

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:08 PM

View PostJTUK, on 16 May 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

As I understand it the enhance can't be 'turned off'.. the dial will give you various mappings and colour..which is why I said the amp is inherrently coloured.
The 4 band para is very powerful..but again there is your colour if you switch that in.
The timbre can be dialed zero'ed..but it is also arguable whether that is flat.
This is no different to a whole host of other amps that have filters or internal mapping or bias controls or whatever you wish to call them.
Unless you can turn them off or disable them... you aren't getting 'flat'.. and that is without fetting what colour you cab or pickups may do.
and don't even think about the effects chain..????? :lol:

Does flat mean the sound of your bass's acoustic sound amplified..? to some it might, others have their own definition.
My most neutral and best, as it happens.., sounding amp has quite basic and sutble EQ but if the bass doesn't sound good in the first place... there is not a lot I can
do to affect it.
Fortunately, I love the way it works.
I also like my TF amp as a backup but the sound is different and more mechanical by comparison.
If I didn't have them A/B'd I'd be less aware of the difference... but that is why we A/B..

Personally, I don't think flat is the holy grail anyway... you go with the sound that pleases you however you get it..
but KISS in the signal chain is not a bad way to start..

These are all valid points, no argue here. Here's the manual on the TF (but i believe you arleady have it) http://www.thunderfunk.com/Downloads/Thunderfunk_Owner's_Manual.pdf
Over here Dave clearly states that Enhance and Timbre at 0 removes them from the circuit. If this is entirely true it's a different story but just by plugging the bass to the return socket should give an idea of the differences between the sound with and without the preamp acting.

But this was never the question here, i already stated that i don't use a flat setting on bass and amp, i only pointed that what i do want is to have a flat(ish) sounding cab so i can have a better perception of what's going out of the amp. I would be happy gigging any of the cabs on the OP but my preference goes to the S12T due to IMHO being capable to reproduce the signal going in the most faithfull way, i never said the other cabs sounded bad. I support the opinion that the GB and the Bergs have a better fit and finish and look prettier but i'm only interested in the sound, plus i still haven't found my cab to be fragile in any way.

Let's not continue to fuel a (very healthy) argument that's based solely on personal taste, to each his own ;)

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#48 kennyrodgers

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:23 PM

View Postniceguyhomer, on 15 May 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Yo Pete,

I'm gigging on Friday night but you're more than welcome to use mine on Saturday if yours doesn't arrive in time :)

Hey Al,
Most gracious of you and thanks. I got a call from Bass Direct today so all being well it should arrive tomorrow, gigging it Saturday. If the proverbial hits the fan though I'll be in touch.
Cheers Bud.
B)

Erm.....as you were chaps.

Edited by kennyrodg, 16 May 2013 - 08:27 PM.

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:12 AM

View Postobbm, on 15 May 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Far better for someone with good hearing to do a review.

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#50 obbm

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

Well I used the CN212 in anger last night.

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Logistically it was excellent. It was as easy to lift straight in and out of the car and a lot easier than the AE212 I once owned. I trundled it into the venue on my trolley and plonked it down on the Gramma pad.

The venue was not somewhere to play around during set-up so I had to make do with some minor tweaks on the Schroeder settings. It was loud and punchy and cut through well according to a friend in the audience. It was neither the place nor was there the opportunity to fine tune things as our keyboard player didn't show and we had to re-arrange things on the fly, but we got away with it. One thing I did notice was that it accentuated the small amount of fret-buzz which was slightly disconcerting so turned the tweeter down a bit however it was not audible out front. I look forward to fine-tuning the sound over the coming weeks.
obbm-cables

Bass Guitars - ACG, Musicman, Fender, Sadowsky
Amps - Aguilar TH500, Mesa Boogie Prodigy 4:88
Cabs - Bergantino CN212, PJB C4
Effects - Mesa Boogie, Electro Harmonix, Boss

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