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#151 Mornats

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:35 PM

Love those dancing faders! That Mexican wave they did... :D
  • Main bass: Fender Standard Precision (MIM)
  • Other basses: Yamaha TRBX 504, Squier modified VM Jazz: KiOgon wiring loom and Entwistle JBXN pickups
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#152 funkgod

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 12:11 PM

Why did the mexican throw his wife off the cliff ??
All together....Tequila,
sorry :blush:

Inspierd by Skols post, i made some sound boards, some cheap batton wood from B&Q some wiggley nails, and a large roll of foam backed black cloth from aberkhan £2.50 !, all the boards done for under £20 with loads left over.
large one on the ceiling which im putting a tacky rope light round.
makes a huge difference.
Cheers Paul

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Edited by funkgod, 25 August 2017 - 11:37 AM.


#153 WinterMute

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 09:16 PM

Posted a kit shot a few weeks back, here's a longer shot of the room with the treatment showing, there's similar bass trapping on the back wall.

It's a converted single garage with a floating floor and 2 layers of acoustic plasterboard cross glued to isolated battens for the walls, the ceiling is the same with 8" of dense rock wool boxed in with marine ply.

The acoustic treatment is from EQ Acoustics, and is a combo of bass traps in the vertices and broadband absorption at the early reflection points and on the rear wall. The room is about a meter too short and too narrow so I had to kill the back of it rather than use it and the listening position is about 4' further back than I'd like, but it was a good compromise and the results are a room I can use into the early hours without waking anyone in the house and that yields good results.

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#154 funkgod

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:24 PM

looking good, alot of work you have put into that, well done.
just spotted the 9098........mmmmmmmmmmmmmm Amek
niiiiccceee
i have the 9098 mic pre, would not be with out it now,
works great with bass as well

#155 Skol303

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:46 PM

View Postfunkgod, on 24 August 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

Inspierd by Skols post, i made some sound boards, some cheap batton wood from B&Q some wiggley nails, and a large roll of foam backed black cloth from aberkhan £2.50 !, all the boards done for under £20 with loads left over.
large one on the ceiling which im putting a tacky rope light round.
makes a huge difference.

Looks great! And more importantly, good to hear it's made a difference to your sound. Acoustic treatment is always money/effort very well spent.

PS: I'm very jealous of your tape machine! Always wanted one myself... but I suspect it wouldn't get much use beyond me watching the spools go round and round :)

#156 Skol303

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:52 PM

View PostWinterMute, on 31 August 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

Posted a kit shot a few weeks back, here's a longer shot of the room with the treatment showing, there's similar bass trapping on the back wall.

Nice work! Mine is a very similar space... converted internal garage, about 5m x 3m x 2.5m. I've included as much bass trapping as possible, but you can never have too much ;) I have a similar pair of upright corner traps front and back, side panels and a 'ceiling cloud' above the desk where I work. Does a good job given the limitations of the room.

I've also started using the Sonarworks monitor calibration plug-in which is great. Highly recommended for small home studios.

#157 Mornats

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:57 PM

About that Sonarworks plug-in... My music room is my living room in a rented flat. It has a pretty big problem with bass disappearing in most of the room other than flat on the back wall and in the corners. Bass traps are obviously needed but I can't fit any in the corners as one corner has my workstation in (my speaker aren't in the corner, they on the best wall they can be on), one corner has the door on it, another has my TV in it (no space anywhere else for it) and the final corner is an alcove. So a bad room to say the least! I also can't install anything anywhere as it's rented.

So I've been thinking about the Sonarworks plug-in. Would this help alleviate some of the bass issues by boosting the bass so that it's about the right volume in the triangle between the speakers and my head? Or would it not fix such a bad problem in the room?
  • Main bass: Fender Standard Precision (MIM)
  • Other basses: Yamaha TRBX 504, Squier modified VM Jazz: KiOgon wiring loom and Entwistle JBXN pickups
  • MarkBass CMD 121P
Soundcloud: www.soundcloud.com/mornats.
Feedback: http://basschat.co.u...ck-for-mornats/

#158 Skol303

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:42 PM

View PostMornats, on 13 September 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

So I've been thinking about the Sonarworks plug-in. Would this help alleviate some of the bass issues by boosting the bass so that it's about the right volume in the triangle between the speakers and my head? Or would it not fix such a bad problem in the room?

Hard to say... I've found the Sonarworks plug-in to be very useful, but it's no "silver bullet". A bad room with always be a bad room; the plug-in will just make it slightly less so. But noticeably so in my experience (my own room has the opposite problem with some hefty bass nodes near my listing position, which the plug-in does help to even out).

In your position I'd probably focus on mixing with headphones (Sonarworks have a plug-on for those too!) and then do final tweaks through monitors, mindful that the room might be playing some tricks on my ears. That was my approach at our old address and it worked fine. Many would shoot me down for saying this, but I think a good room only accounts for say the last 10% of any mix, maybe less. I still spend the majority of my mix time using Apple earbuds on a laptop, but that's just my workflow and might not be suitable for everyone.

Sonarworks offer a free 21-day trail of the plugin, so as always the best option is to suck it and see :)

EDIT to say that you'll need a calibrated measurement mic to set up the plugin. You might have one already; I bought their own product but any calibrated mic will do (also good for recording acoustic guitar and other stuff...).

Edited by Skol303, 14 September 2017 - 12:44 PM.


#159 Skol303

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:47 PM

View PostMornats, on 13 September 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

I also can't install anything anywhere as it's rented.

PS: 'gobo' traps or other screen panels might be the solution here - moveable panels that you can position wherever you like.

Examples here: http://www.bluefroga...een_panels.html

#160 Mornats

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:24 PM

Thanks Paul, very useful info! I think I'll be better off with the headphones calibration it seems.

So my new approach will be to compose and balance the mix volumes as much as I can on my Yamaha HS7s and check the mix on headphones to get the bass and overall sound right (the calibration will help with this as my M50x headphones enhance the bass a little). I'm well used to those headphones now so I think I can mix well on them. I'll still use my Yamahas for checking reverb as it's a very different sound in cans, stereo imaging and (what they were intended to do...) checking against reference tracks. I'll use my hi-fi setup too (Asus Xonar Essence STX > Rotel RA930 amp > Tannoy E11 speakers) as a second sound source.

Simply not having space in my corners for bass trapping is my biggest issue with sound treatment. I wouldn't even have the space to store them and move things round any time I wanted to mix so I'll leave that for the day I get a dedicated room for music :)

So even though I have to admit defeat on the room treatment for now, one thing has always plagued me with it. I always feat that if I spent hundreds on sound treatment and reorganise everything in my room to accommodate it then it may not guarantee that it'll fix the bass problems. I guess this is a barrier for many; simply not knowing if the investment will have a night and day difference. I'm sure it would but there'd always be a nagging doubt that it would be a gamble. Sadly there's no demo available for sound treatment :)
  • Main bass: Fender Standard Precision (MIM)
  • Other basses: Yamaha TRBX 504, Squier modified VM Jazz: KiOgon wiring loom and Entwistle JBXN pickups
  • MarkBass CMD 121P
Soundcloud: www.soundcloud.com/mornats.
Feedback: http://basschat.co.u...ck-for-mornats/

#161 Pea Turgh

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:25 AM

Just buy a load of loft insulation, but leave it in it's packaging. Stack it up, see if it makes a difference. If not, return to shop.

Ps, you won't return to shop.

#162 Mornats

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:58 AM

Not a bad idea. It won't get around the problem of there not being any space for it but it will let me hear the difference. Next problem to solve will be how to get 8 rolls of the stuff into the back of a sports saloon :)
  • Main bass: Fender Standard Precision (MIM)
  • Other basses: Yamaha TRBX 504, Squier modified VM Jazz: KiOgon wiring loom and Entwistle JBXN pickups
  • MarkBass CMD 121P
Soundcloud: www.soundcloud.com/mornats.
Feedback: http://basschat.co.u...ck-for-mornats/

#163 lurksalot

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:17 PM

View PostMornats, on 17 September 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Not a bad idea. It won't get around the problem of there not being any space for it but it will let me hear the difference. Next problem to solve will be how to get 8 rolls of the stuff into the back of a sports saloon :)

A neat trick is to get it delivered ;)

Ed to add , buy a cheap punch bag , rip the guts out of it , stuff it with acoustic wadding and voila , you have a great sounding gym aswell :D

Edited by lurksalot, 17 September 2017 - 12:20 PM.

When I said lower the frequency , I didn't mean only on christmas and birthdays, blue moons Preston Guilds


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#164 Mornats

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:38 PM

To give you an idea of what I'm dealing with here's a couple of pics of my room.

Front:

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Back:

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  • Main bass: Fender Standard Precision (MIM)
  • Other basses: Yamaha TRBX 504, Squier modified VM Jazz: KiOgon wiring loom and Entwistle JBXN pickups
  • MarkBass CMD 121P
Soundcloud: www.soundcloud.com/mornats.
Feedback: http://basschat.co.u...ck-for-mornats/

#165 Mornats

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:41 PM

The back of the room looks like I could fit some bass traps in there but I'd have an ugly bag on insulation right next to my TV. Although I could place one on top of the DVD rack maybe and store it out of sight until I need to use it. The other corner is an alcove so I'm not sure how a bass trap would work in there.

The front of room would require me to move my desk (making it impossible to actually do any work!) and would block the door so permanent bass traps just won't work there. I could possibly move my hi-fi speaker and place one on the desk but that would be an absolute pain to undo the wiring at the back of the speaker each time.

Edited by Mornats, 17 September 2017 - 12:42 PM.

  • Main bass: Fender Standard Precision (MIM)
  • Other basses: Yamaha TRBX 504, Squier modified VM Jazz: KiOgon wiring loom and Entwistle JBXN pickups
  • MarkBass CMD 121P
Soundcloud: www.soundcloud.com/mornats.
Feedback: http://basschat.co.u...ck-for-mornats/

#166 Skol303

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:17 PM

View PostMornats, on 17 September 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:

To give you an idea of what I'm dealing with here's a couple of pics of my room.

Ah, that gives a much better understanding!

I'm guessing from the photos that your room is almost square? If so, you're going to run into all kinds of problems when it comes to acoustic treatment - to the extent that it might be a pointless endeavour. Under those circumstances I'd certainly recommend going down the headphones route.

PS: your mixes sound consistently good anyway, so whatever you're already doing seems to be working just fine :)

Edited by Skol303, 18 September 2017 - 01:17 PM.


#167 Mornats

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:26 PM

Yeah it's pretty much square, with maybe up to a foot along the "long" wall (no the one my Yamaha's are on). So I'll just consider my room as good training for ears for the time when I can get a better room with treatment :D

View PostSkol303, on 18 September 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

PS: your mixes sound consistently good anyway, so whatever you're already doing seems to be working just fine :)

Thanks! I think that comes from endlessly listening to them on my monitors, hi-fi speakers and headphones. And as I listen to all my music on either the headphones or my hi-fi speakers I can do a good comparison. Actually, you'll notice that my Tannoy hi-fi speakers are in a corner and I can hear the bass buildup in them so I can really tell if I've gone overboard with the bass. What I need to do more of is listen to music on my monitors to get really used to them.

I guess that problems in the room mean that I'm doing more careful comparisons as I know I have to get around the room sound more. One person's problem is another's learning tool eh?
  • Main bass: Fender Standard Precision (MIM)
  • Other basses: Yamaha TRBX 504, Squier modified VM Jazz: KiOgon wiring loom and Entwistle JBXN pickups
  • MarkBass CMD 121P
Soundcloud: www.soundcloud.com/mornats.
Feedback: http://basschat.co.u...ck-for-mornats/

#168 SimonEdward

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:41 PM

View PostSkol303, on 14 September 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:


In your position I'd probably focus on mixing with headphones (Sonarworks have a plug-on for those too!) and then do final tweaks through monitors, mindful that the room might be playing some tricks on my ears. That was my approach at our old address and it worked fine. Many would shoot me down for saying this, but I think a good room only accounts for say the last 10% of any mix, maybe less. I still spend the majority of my mix time using Apple earbuds on a laptop, but that's just my workflow and might not be suitable for everyone.


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