0175westwood29 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1388341139' post='2320990'] IMO D.Id basses and D.Id guitars are nothing at all alike. But, if you feel your cab adds to your tone, then go for the mic thang. I don't agree that your cab,with a mic, can provide tonal differences in your venue derived sound that can't be achieved via easier methods, ie a sansamp or similar. Good luck. [/quote] im willing to try out a cab sim to see if its any better but im gonna atleast give the mic idea a go i think andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1388329334' post='2320788'] This is IMO just another "I don't trust the engineer with my finely crafted delicate bass tone.man" Unless you have your own engineer with whom you can explore bass tones and their context, ie your band, you are going to have to trust the house engineer until you do. You can help out buy [b]providing a good di tone, for example a sansamp or similar[/b] with your tone set up already on it, rather than rely on the houses ancient behringer d.is,or take your feed from your head post EQ ( not something I'd recommend as the EQ you use for your speaker cab will almost certainly not suit the P.A requirements). If you really want a mic, ask for a mic, but dont be surprised if you don't get it, as unless you have a very specific cab tone (yes of course you have don't you?) it will be widely regarded as a luxury by hard pressed engineers. Pre mixing a mic and a DI into a cheap noisy behringer £40 mixer completely defeats the point of trying to get a better tone to the P.A. All IMO of course. [/quote] actually a really good idea there - forget what I said. If I were you I would do that. I'm not you mind! In terms of fitting a bass sound into a wall of guitars... for clarity I would go DI every time over a mic ed cab. And it will open up ideas for you... split your signal, blend in the low end clean or overdriven with the fuzz sound ontop, or whatever you want - you can create monster tones and know that the PA will be able to make it sound awesome - and fit into the mix in a way your amp and cab never could. the pedal you're using isn't a hard build on vero, make 10 of them for the price of a decent microphone to mic your cab.... that's my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1388345605' post='2321071'] actually a really good idea there - forget what I said. If I were you I would do that. I'm not you mind! In terms of fitting a bass sound into a wall of guitars... for clarity I would go DI every time over a mic ed cab. And it will open up ideas for you... split your signal, blend in the low end clean or overdriven with the fuzz sound ontop, or whatever you want - you can create monster tones and know that the PA will be able to make it sound awesome - and fit into the mix in a way your amp and cab never could. the pedal you're using isn't a hard build on vero, make 10 of them for the price of a decent microphone to mic your cab.... that's my 2p [/quote] thing is i surely that will still have the issue with the fuzz and also will be completely bypassing my rig completely? i use a combination of the overdrive(mesa flux drive) and the amps natural gain to get my "clean" tone dnt want to bypass my rig completely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankai Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 If you use an amp simulating DI that wouldn't be the case. It effectively will create a DI signal that sounds like an amp when run through the PA (or something like it). Look at the Sansamp Bass Driver, the MXR M80, or the Behringer BDI21. You plug into that, and it splits out an untouched feed to the amp as normal, but then does funky amp modelling stuff to the DI output. The Sansamp and MXR M80 are both top notch, and the Behringer is a rather good budget version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 DI Fuzz is always nasty if there isn't time for an extensive soundcheck, and I don't think that trying to find a way around that is being precious. What I would really like to have is a simple DI with no amp simulation going on, but just a steep lowpass filter at 4K or so to take the edge off like a tweeterless cab does. My BSS AR116 offers this, except that the lowpass is only available if using the 20dB or 40dB pads. I guess the Markbass DI might do the job if using the VLE filter judiciously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 dnt get me wrong i love pedals but ive paid probs like £1000 without including the bass to get to where i am kinda dnt want a £80 di box like a sansamp. would be up for trying the emulated cab, to see if it helped but id run into it with a di not inbetween cab and speaker. not meaning to sound angry or rude btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankai Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 [quote name='Bankai' timestamp='1388352098' post='2321187'] I give up. [/quote] Me too, after all, if you spent that much, you have to use it right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1388351347' post='2321172'] dnt get me wrong i love pedals but ive paid probs like £1000 without including the bass to get to where i am kinda dnt want a £80 di box like a sansamp. would be up for trying the emulated cab, to see if it helped but id run into it with a di not inbetween cab and speaker. not meaning to sound angry or rude btw. [/quote] and I'm not wanting to be rude.... but you run the whole thing through a £5 cable... it's not about the money.... want to improve your bands sound - spend £2.50 a gig and buy the soundguy a coffee for the soundcheck.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 [quote name='Bankai' timestamp='1388352098' post='2321187'] I give up. [/quote] im trying to get the sound of my amp and cab and being told to basically ignore that is a bit weird imo. ive actually had a chat with a few sound guys and a gal that a friend of mine knows and all have said that they wouldnt have a problem with what im proposing and have said that if it didnt cause feedback then there wouldnt be a problem. the signal wnt be a bad one as the mixer i was looking into is about 200 quid new, obviously wnt pay that. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Go ahead, you know best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1388354219' post='2321214'] Go ahead, you know best. [/quote] would appear you think the opposite. i want to try it at least, was looking for advice to see if there was a better way or if i was thinking along the right lines with my idea. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Andy, apologies if my reply seemed flippant, but, you've had a few good replies all suggesting that what you propose isn't worth doing. However,if you really want to present your stage sound through a mic into a cheap mixer then off to the P.A the go for it. After many years micing and D.Iing bass cabs for clients I can honestly say I get 90%of what we all need from the D.I regardless of the quality of the bass amp and cab. I think most bassists working larger stages accept their sound will be altered to fit the mix in what particular context the band are appearing. (As are guitar amps despite what you think),and that their personal backline will not be heard by the audience. If you sincerely believe your backline tone is that good, then go for it. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1388356368' post='2321244'] Andy, apologies if my reply seemed flippant, but, you've had a few good replies all suggesting that what you propose isn't worth doing. However,if you really want to present your stage sound through a mic into a cheap mixer then off to the P.A the go for it. After many years micing and D.Iing bass cabs for clients I can honestly say I get 90%of what we all need from the D.I regardless of the quality of the bass amp and cab. I think most bassists working larger stages accept their sound will be altered to fit the mix in what particular context the band are appearing. (As are guitar amps despite what you think),and that their personal backline will not be heard by the audience. If you sincerely believe your backline tone is that good, then go for it. MM [/quote] apologies if mine was to, i know alot of things need to be changed ie venue specific etc just looking to get the sound i want across maybe a wasted experiment but if i get what i need then it'll be gd work for me. also im not saying my tone is amazing and how dare some one change it. will try and get the best mixer that i can afford, any tips on the mic's? andy Edited December 29, 2013 by 0175westwood29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Can of worms! I like large diaphragm mics like shure beta 52 or sennheiser e602. But. If you're looking to just catch top end distortion etc then a shure sm57 or sennheiser e609 will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1388358542' post='2321272'] Can of worms! I like large diaphragm mics like shure beta 52 or sennheiser e602. But. If you're looking to just catch top end distortion etc then a shure sm57 or sennheiser e609 will be fine. [/quote] i know right, cool thanks will look into a those, yeh just looking to get a truer representation on the fuzz and high distortion etc andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankai Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 e609 I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 [quote name='Bankai' timestamp='1388414775' post='2321709'] e609 I'd say. [/quote] been looking at a few youtube videos and these are beating the sm57 for me so gonna look in to grabbing one of these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 just been checking out a few of the sennheiser e609 and e602 on there site and a few youtube vids, both sounding really nice just got a question about there sensitivity the 609 being more aimed at guitar only goes down to 40hz while the the 602 being more of a typical bass and kick mic goes down to 20hz both go up to the same high ranges near enough, so what im wondering is as i tune to A standard ( A-D-G-C) am i better of getting 602? suppose i could just use the di to get the lows and mix in the 609 for the high? andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Yep,remember what it is you want.,which is to pick up that high end detail and fizz, that you reckon the D.I sounds a little flat on. However.. For me, I'd go for the 602 just because of its versatility in being able to mic kicks and so on,but the 609 may be a little cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 will see what i can find when i get paid, thanks andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'm minded that all the cab is adding up the signal is an eq curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='sk8' timestamp='1389123270' post='2330352'] I'm minded that all the cab is adding up the signal is an eq curve. [/quote] this is true but trying to get that eq will be harder than sticking a mic infront. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1389127194' post='2330458'] this is true but trying to get that eq will be harder than sticking a mic infront. andy [/quote] Fair enough! Interested to see how this progresses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1389127194' post='2330458'] this is true but trying to get that eq will be harder than sticking a mic infront. andy [/quote] That depends on the Eq curve of the mic, and all following components, though. You're cumulating even more 'sounds' by doing this. The result of micing is not the 'sound' of the cab, especially in a 'live' situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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