Dad3353 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 [quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1391367538' post='2356336'] Here's another. Does "Scoop" in relation to tone / EQ settings mean something like "A bit of a flat spot"? Cheers. [/quote] As above; think of 'a scoop of ice cream', that's the shape of the frequency response curve, viewed graphically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm93 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Ta. Just tried "Sccoping" on my amp. Interesting... Right - what does "compression" do...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 'Scooped' can also be described as 'smiley face EQ'. On amps like my old Trace Elliot, it had a 12 band EQ (12 individual sliders) on the front of the amp to set EQ. For a 'scooped' tone, the sliders were set so that they resembled a smile ( ) for a tone much favoured by slappers. Slappers..... at a recent gig there were these 2........No, I won't go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1391454028' post='2357358'] Ta. Just tried "Sccoping" on my amp. Interesting... Right - what does "compression" do...? [/quote] I'll try, but bear with me, please. Let's imagine a signal level, arbitrarily. We'll call that level (or 'volume', if you prefer...) 0db. Now, we'll play louder, and call the new louder level 10 db. Compression implies treatment such that the level is reduced, perhaps halved. Our louder volume will be 5db instead. Every volume change will be reduced in the same proportion; increasing signal to 20 db, the compressor will adjust it to 10 db. This is only a simple example; in fact compressors are variable (not just halving the signal; this is the 'ratio'...), and can be set to start compression only from a certain level (this is the 'threshold'...). Once the signal reduces, the compression goes down, after a 'release' period. There's a lot more to say on this subject; is that enough for now, or is more required..? The Basschat 'definitive' gen on this is in a blog by 5imon, but I can't find it right now. I'll be back if I come across it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm93 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1391455659' post='2357392'] I'll try, but bear with me, please. Let's imagine a signal level, arbitrarily. We'll call that level (or 'volume', if you prefer...) 0db. Now, we'll play louder, and call the new louder level 10 db. Compression implies treatment such that the level is reduced, perhaps halved. Our louder volume will be 5db instead. Every volume change will be reduced in the same proportion; increasing signal to 20 db, the compressor will adjust it to 10 db. This is only a simple example; in fact compressors are variable (not just halving the signal; this is the 'ratio'...), and can be set to start compression only from a certain level (this is the 'threshold'...). Once the signal reduces, the compression goes down, after a 'release' period. There's a lot more to say on this subject; is that enough for now, or is more required..? The Basschat 'definitive' gen on this is in a blog by 5imon, but I can't find it right now. I'll be back if I come across it... [/quote] Darrumph! Hmm. So, I just played with the guitar volume on 4 and the compression on zero, then with the compression on 11 - i.e. Max. The effective 'volume' sounded the same, indicating the 'noise output' is also the same at both settings. The differences seemed in the 'brightness'. Are my ears decieving me...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1391459027' post='2357456']...Are my ears decieving me...?[/quote] Let's try again, like this... Compression 'off', guitar volume max, amp at a moderate volume, play very softly. Now whang out a full-blooded power chord. Is there a difference between playing softly and the windows you've just broken..? Yes..? Good. Now, compressor at 'max' (touch nothing else...), play softly. Whang out another hefty power chord (yes, the same one will do...). The windows remaining should be still in place. Was there a difference with and without compression..? Yes..? Good. No..? Change the compressor for a working one. (I disclaim liability for hearing loss or neighbour's greenhouse glass...) Hope this helps. Edited February 3, 2014 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm93 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1391462399' post='2357521'] Let's try again, like this... Compression 'off', guitar volume max, amp at a moderate volume, play very softly. Now whang out a full-blooded power chord. Is there a difference between playing softly and the windows you've just broken..? Yes..? Good. Now, compressor at 'max' (touch nothing else...), play softly. Whang out another hefty power chord (yes, the same one will do...). The windows remaining should be still in place. Was there a difference with and without compression..? Yes..? Good. No..? Change the compressor for a working one. (I disclaim liability for hearing loss or neighbour's greenhouse glass...) Hope this helps. [/quote] They do not have a greenhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1391463283' post='2357536'] They do not have a greenhouse. [/quote] In that case, move from Sarf Lunnon to Shepperton, and do the experiment there. A Sunday morning would be suitable. Recommended guitar: Telecaster. Amp..? Hiwatt DR103. Cab..? Hiwatt 4x12 (don't use 2; Heathrow Airport is too close...). Amp settings..? All chicken heads at noon, except Master Vol, at 4 o'clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm93 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Ah! All chicken heads at noon means no scoop! I learned that this evening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1391465877' post='2357579'] Ah! All chicken heads at noon means no scoop! I learned that this evening... [/quote] Many amps (eg Orange Terror) are made to have a very prominent 'scoop' even when all knobs are at noon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1391455659' post='2357392'] The Basschat 'definitive' gen on this is in a blog by 5imon, but I can't find it right now. I'll be back if I come across it... [/quote] It's [url="http://web.archive.org/web/20130215154741/http://blog.basschat.co.uk/setting-up-a-compressor/"]here[/url], and very informative. It helped me when I started using compressors in Logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1391467668' post='2357606'] It's [url="http://web.archive.org/web/20130215154741/http://blog.basschat.co.uk/setting-up-a-compressor/"]here[/url], and very informative. It helped me when I started using compressors in Logic. [/quote] [url="http://www.smileyvault.com/"][/url] Edited February 3, 2014 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm93 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1391467668' post='2357606'] It's [url="http://web.archive.org/web/20130215154741/http://blog.basschat.co.uk/setting-up-a-compressor/"]here[/url], and very informative. It helped me when I started using compressors in Logic. [/quote] Coo. I may be gone some time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 [quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1391541729' post='2358414'] Coo. I may be gone some time... [/quote] I understand. When you're finished, though, do read the blog about compressors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolo Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 After that if you're still curious, have a look at ovnilab. It's a good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm93 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 [quote name='Bolo' timestamp='1391599866' post='2358945'] After that if you're still curious, have a look at ovnilab. It's a good read. [/quote] Thanks Bolo. Masses to read there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGrOtTeN Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1390515608' post='2346431'] 'The f***ing soundman shot 48v back up the DI line and borked my rig' [/quote] LOL On a serious note, can this happen easily with amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 [quote name='MaGrOtTeN' timestamp='1392026198' post='2363631'] LOL On a serious note, can this happen easily with amps? [/quote] It'll depend on the amp, but yes it can happen. It's easy for manufacturers to prevent damage from phantom power by blocking with caps or by using a simple passive transformer based DI, but not all amps do this. Personally I always use a separate DI box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dyer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='Jonnyboy Rotten' timestamp='1391091208' post='2353136'] A bit like 'a drivers car' - its a way that people use to describe something they have to make themselves sound discerning and informed. [/quote] Hmmm, *ponders this*, not so long ago I purchased a rather nice Alfa Romeo, one of the first things the dealer said to me was "That's a real drivers car you've got there sir" I later learnt what this meant - it's bloody horrible to drive! Actually quite like it now… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1391111810' post='2353490'] We often refer to electricity as being a 'positive' and 'negative'. We have two wires. Often the screening (or 'earth'...) is used as one of these wires. Ordinary guitar jack cables are like this; the signal goes through the centre wire, and flows back via the screening (also called 'ground'...). All well and good, and inexpensive, but when we need to use longer cable runs, such a s a 'snake' multipair from stage to console at back of hall, these inexpensive cables pick up interferences (hum, transient spikes...). To reduce this pollution, the signals goes through two distinct wires, which have a common screening. Neither of the signal wires go to earth; they are seperate. Where two pins sufficed for 'unbalanced' jacks, three are required for 'balanced' signals. Microphone XLR cables are an example. The material using balanced signals will typically be designed for receiving low-level signals, independant from the earth screening. The pins, impedance etc are designed to cater for this. That's the role of the DI. Any clearer..? [/quote] Not quite. The signal flows equally down the + and the - wires and back through the ground wire. But in the - wire it is an inverted or a mirrored version of the signal in the + wire. At the mixer the signal in the - wire is inverted so now becomes a positive signal. This is 'added' to the positive signal in the + wire. So now you have twice the signal. BUT any interference on the cable will affect both signals in the same sense. So, at the mixer, the positive interference on the - wire becomes negative interference and when added to the equal but positive interference on the + wire, the noise is cancelled. Edited February 16, 2014 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1392587613' post='2370459'] Not quite. The signal flows equally down the + and the - wires and back through the ground wire. But in the - wire it is an inverted or a mirrored version of the signal in the + wire. At the mixer the signal in the - wire is inverted so now becomes a positive signal. This is 'added' to the positive signal in the + wire. So now you have twice the signal. BUT any interference on the cable will affect both signals in the same sense. So, at the mixer, the positive interference on the - wire becomes negative interference and when added to the equal but positive interference on the + wire, the noise is cancelled. [/quote] Excellent explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 [quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1392682445' post='2371683'] Excellent explanation [/quote] Woosh! Right over me 'ead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1392688335' post='2371702'] Woosh! Right over me 'ead. [/quote] Noise would add to both signals. If the signals were +1 and -1 and the noise was +0.1. At the mixer you would see +1.1 and -0.9. Invert -0.9 gives +0.9; 1.1 + 0.9 = 2. Without noise; 1 + 1 = 2. Obviously it's a lot more complex in real life because we're taking about frequencies and phases etc. Edited February 18, 2014 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1392728718' post='2371987'] Obviously it's a lot more complex in real life... [/quote] It's complex enough in theory, thanks... [size=4] [/size] Edited February 18, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1392729059' post='2371993'] It's complex enough in theory, thanks... [size=4] [/size] [/quote] Ok. Well the noise appears on both lines but is equal and opposite on each so cancells out. You probably don't need to know in much more detail how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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