Sight Reading Help?

[JuliusGroove]

I suck at sight reading..

No matter how much I tried last year to get better at it I just didn't see any improvement.

There was a glimour of hope using the Josquin Des Pres book - "Simplified Sightreading for Bass" - But it just doesnt seem to stick in my brain..

Any advice/tips on improving reading?

[CamdenRob]

I mentioned this on another thread the other day... I am by no means an expert so my methods may not be best practice, however I've found reading a lot easier since I started reading the intervals instead of the notes.

If a tune is in G, I use the shape for G major and just read the intervals from one note to the next, ie if the second note is on the next line up from the G I just read it as Two scale intervals above the G... I don't think, oh thats a B, I just read the interval then move on to the next note. Means when I get to an F I don't have to remember to sharpen it as the scale shape is already all the correct notes in the key.

Works for me, but I'm sure others will know better ways

Edited February 17, 2014 by CamdenRob

[Bilbo]

What is your reading practising regime?

[Westie9]

Small baby steps, one step at a time. Eventually you'll start to recognise the shape in front of you and it will become second nature.

Same question as Bilbo above: How much time are you dedicating to it?

[ML94]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1392631970' post='2370733']
What is your reading practising regime?
[/quote][quote name='Westie9' timestamp='1392634671' post='2370781']
Small baby steps, one step at a time. Eventually you'll start to recognise the shape in front of you and it will become second nature.

Same question as Bilbo above: How much time are you dedicating to it?
[/quote]

You guys could probably help me too ! I can read the notes in good time but the problem for me lies in rhythms. I'm not very comfortable with subdivisions and how to work them out. I've learnt stuff like havona, teen town which makes use of the sixteenth note divisions but thats all from ear so i've continuously stopped and worked it out. Now i play them without thinking but i couldnt write down what i was playing, if that made any sense?

[matejj53]

I have same problem I can read but really slowly ... I started to learn other melodies (jazz standards and those help me because it is different to what bass line 16ths can be see: on green dolphin street, billies bounce, straight no chaser etc Charlie Parker has Omnibook and he has lots of different rhythms, and also I try trble clef) I guess it might look like those guys that read might look it is so natural but we don't see how much work they put into it, many times is since very young age. Well if we want to get better we need to practice hard.

[JuliusGroove]

I use to practice for an hour a day but I just got fed up when I saw no massive improvement. Finding transcriptions proved a headache too, I mean you can only really sight read a piece once.. After that you remember notes and you start to rely on memory

[Grangur]

[quote name='JuliusGroove' timestamp='1392714414' post='2371797']
I use to practice for an hour a day but I just got fed up when I saw no massive improvement. Finding transcriptions proved a headache too, I mean you can only really sight read a piece once.. After that you remember notes and you start to rely on memory
[/quote]
You need to use more complicated pieces then. Don't only read bass lines, play anything you can get your hands on. In a video Jaco says to play everything and anything, even treble clef (Fancy getting that wild huh!?!)

Stuart Clayton has produced books for [url="http://www.basslinepublishing.com/bass-essentials/the-bass-guitarist-s-guide-to-reading-music-beginner-level.html"]reading for bass[/url]. I bet you won't remember all of them.

[dustandbarley]

I solved the search for transcriptions by getting logic and downloading midi songs. There are probably many cheaper alternatives to logic, but I also wanted to use logics recording facility. Now I have a library of tunes (2000+). I also subscribe to [url="https://www.sightreadingfactory.com/app"]www.sightreadingfactory.com/app[/url]. For £20 a year you have limitless material and progressive levels. You can try the app for free. The material the website generates for bass are not really basslines, so not what you'd play in any other context than just sight reading practise, where as using midi files, you are getting more or less the real deal.

Edited February 18, 2014 by dustandbarley

[JuliusGroove]

Thanks guys!

[TKenrick]

I find it helpful to isolate pitch and rhythm and practise them separately before working on 'real' reading examples.

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Reading-Text-For-Instruments/dp/0769233775/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392728595&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+reading+in+4%2F4"]Modern Reading in 4/4[/url] is great a book for getting to grips with syncopation and different combinations of subdivisions (it's also a great cure for insomnia...).

Gary Willis has a great pitch reading thing on his site: http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/read.html

[chris_b]

You'll get fluent in reading music by reading music. The more you read the better you will be, so start with simple stuff and move on in stages when you've mastered the level you're on.

[louisthebass]

Pretty much what Chris b said... I started to learn to read a couple of years ago. I'm still not great, but doing things a bit at a time really does help.

Three books that I've used are:
Music Reading for Bass by Wendi Hreovsic (Musician's Institute Press)
Electric Bass Complete Vols 1-3 by Ed Friedland (Hal Leonard)
The Bass Guitarist's guide to Reading Music Vol 1 by Stuart Clayton (Bassline Publishing)

[Bilbo]

This is good for reading rhythms. It's called, oddly enough, Encyclopedia of Reading Rhythms

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musicians-Institute-Encyclopedia-Workbook-Instruments/dp/0793573793/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392753679&sr=1-1&keywords=reading+rhythms

Also try the Complete Bach Cello Suites as you won't remember them enough to be playing them by ear.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faber-Music-Bach-Cello-Suites/dp/B003HKDZ02/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392753788&sr=1-4&keywords=bach+cello+suites

It takes a few years to nail it, guys. Progress is incremental and slow. Be patient and stick with it. I know a 'ten-finger' reading pianist who told me it took him 15 years to nail it. If we take 2 or 3, we are doing well.

[tinyd]

I quite like the rhythm exercises on this site:-

http://www.practicesightreading.com/

[ambient]

[quote name='ML94' timestamp='1392694694' post='2371713']
You guys could probably help me too ! I can read the notes in good time but the problem for me lies in rhythms. I'm not very comfortable with subdivisions and how to work them out. I've learnt stuff like havona, teen town which makes use of the sixteenth note divisions but thats all from ear so i've continuously stopped and worked it out. Now i play them without thinking but i couldnt write down what i was playing, if that made any sense?
[/quote]

Best thing I've found for rhythms is to break the bar down into smaller sections, use a pencil and draw lines down isolating each beat. Clap or sing each beat then start practicing it on your bass. Get each beat down then separately then join them together and play the whole bar.

Another useful thing is an app like Transcribe, Logic, Garageband or Sibelius. Stick the rhythm in and play it back so you can hear what's going on.

[Bilbo]

Another option is to use any charts you have as exercise to read rhythms (the Parker Omnibook is great for this). Just sit there, without a bass, and read through the charts as rhythms, ignoring the pitches. It helps you focus on the act of reading rhythms across bar lines without the distraction of identifying the notes. After you get better at it, you can start working on the actually reading of dots. Ironically, reading the rhythms is often seen as the complicated bit but it is, in fact, the easiest part of the exercise.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1392753929' post='2372410']
This is good for reading rhythms. It's called, oddly enough, Encyclopedia of Reading Rhythms

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musicians-Institute-Encyclopedia-Workbook-Instruments/dp/0793573793/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392753679&sr=1-1&keywords=reading+rhythms"]http://www.amazon.co...reading+rhythms[/url]

Also try the Complete Bach Cello Suites as you won't remember them enough to be playing them by ear.

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faber-Music-Bach-Cello-Suites/dp/B003HKDZ02/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392753788&sr=1-4&keywords=bach+cello+suites"]http://www.amazon.co...ch+cello+suites[/url]

It takes a few years to nail it, guys. Progress is incremental and slow. Be patient and stick with it. I know a 'ten-finger' reading pianist who told me it took him 15 years to nail it. If we take 2 or 3, we are doing well.
[/quote]
It's interesting you recommend the Bach. Please can you tell me, as the cello goes lower than our B string, do these often present a need for a B string?

I'm only asking as I currently have a 5 string that I'm thinking of moving on, but I don't want to be shortsighted. It's got a really great neck with harmonics easily played all over.

[Myke]

It depends in which octave you choose to play the piece. The ones I have tried previously needed the lower string but only when I played it lower down.

[ambient]

[quote name='JuliusGroove' timestamp='1392714414' post='2371797']
I use to practice for an hour a day but I just got fed up when I saw no massive improvement. Finding transcriptions proved a headache too, I mean you can only really sight read a piece once.. After that you remember notes and you start to rely on memory
[/quote]

There are hundreds of transcriptions out there, you just need to use google and you'll find them. There's a thread on here somewhere with links to loads of sites.
The Jamerson book is excellent, I use cello transcriptions too, though these have some awkward fingerings sometimes, the cello is tuned in 5th not 4ths.
Melody/head transcriptions are good practice too, the real book is an excellent source for these.

Edited February 23, 2014 by ambient

[Grangur]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1393170530' post='2376919']
...There's a thread on here somewhere with links to loads of sites.
[/quote]

Here's one

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/215336-learning-to-read-the-dots-sheet-music-to-learn-with/

[stevie]

Don't forget the Major's amazing contribution to this site: <http://basschat.co.uk/topic/74284-the-majors-bass-boot-camp-session-index-1-36/>

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1393152870' post='2376642']
It's interesting you recommend the Bach. Please can you tell me, as the cello goes lower than our B string, do these often present a need for a B string?

I'm only asking as I currently have a 5 string that I'm thinking of moving on, but I don't want to be shortsighted. It's got a really great neck with harmonics easily played all over.
[/quote]

Depends on what you are using it for. If its reading exercises, it doesn't matter that much. If you want to perform them, it does. But does the two or three missed notes compensate for the fact that the pieces are being performed on the wrong instrument and mostly pizzicato

[ChunkyMunky]

http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/read.html

I'm actually surprised no one has suggested this. The best method I found was to separate the two aspects that vital of music reading, those being the notes themselves and the rhythm. Take the Gary Willis thing for notes and something else for rhythms. It's best to work incrementally on it and to keep going by upping the tempo a little bit each time. I used to play a game with myself that if I could sight-read the notes perfectly on 3 generations in a row, then upping the tempo by 2bpm. I got so chuffed with this that at one point, I'd treat myself if I nailed it 10 times in a row. Lots of curry was consumed in my note-reading progress, naturally.

Another note to throw in on this is to go with "ACEG" in between the spaces on the stave, so if you lose your cool and your mind at the same time, you've got a partial mental safety net to fall back on. Just remember it's not a race and you're welcome to PM me if you like!

[ubassman]

I made massive sight reading improvements when I started having to transpose tuba parts into DB parts for orchestra. The key was to start writing ...not reading.

I use MuseScore which is free to download. As you write the music you can play back the notes and hear what you write. That for me is really powerful , hearing the music in your head from the dots.