Fret buzz and truss rod having opposite effect

[ape]

Hi All, thought I'd see if anyone has any ideas on here before I drive myself crazy. I'm re setting up my trusty old Ibanez and getting fret buzz on the top of the neck (up to about the 5th fret) I've got a nice big gap at the bridge end of the fretboard, the thing that's confusing me is turning the trus rod clockwise to tension it seems to make it worse rather than better however if I bend the neck forwards by holding it and pulling it seems to improve things, very confused. Have I over looked something somewhere?

[Beedster]

Unless I'm missing something, tightening a neck on which you're getting fret buzz might not be the way to go?

[gjones]

Tighten the truss rod and it will straighten the neck. Loosen the truss rod and it will put a bow in the neck. Sometimes adjusting the truss rod is not enough and you also have to adjust the saddle heights as well. In extreme cases a shim in the neck pocket may be needed as well. It really depends whether you want a really low action or you can live with a higher one.

[gary mac]

So, was it not buzzing prior to the attempted set up?

[ape]

Yeah it's been buzzing for a while but finally getting round to setting it up now I've got some new strings and pickups, the saddles are already higher than I'd, I always thought tensioning the trus rod bowed the neck forward rather than pulled it backwards.

[HowieBass]

Tightening the truss rod, by turning the adjusting nut clockwise, creates a back bow in the neck (remember the rule, righty tighty, lefty loosey). You don't want a back bow, you need to loosen the truss rod, allowing the string tension to pull the neck slightly forwards creating the slight relief needed. Do it a little at a time, say a quarter turn a day - a little goes a long way. To check the relief, hold the E string down at the 1st and 12th frets and there should be a very slight gap between string and the 4th through to the 8th frets.

[ape]

Ah makes sense in that case, don't ask me why but I thought tightening it made it bow forward, at least I know noe, truss rod is currently completely slackened off with just enough to tension it and keep it rattling but still buzzing :-( it'll do for now I plane on replacing the fretboard in future so will check how the straight the neck is then etc

[Diablo]

The Fender setup guide for truss rod is to put a capo on the first fret, then depress the lowest string (E for 4, B for 5) at the last fret and then measure the gap between the string and the 7th fret. Should be 12-14 thou, about 0.35mm, a thick business card, or the like. If the string touches the 7th fret you need have too much backbow and need to slacken the truss rod, if you have a wide gap you tighten the truss rod to being the neck backwards. Before adjusting the rod make sure you drop off the string tension, adjust rod, retune, then check 7th fret gap again.

Remove capo then set saddle height at 3/32" (2.5mm) between strings and fret at the 17th fret. If you cannot get this right you need to shim the neck. In this case set saddle heights at mid adjustment and shim as required, so at least you have some saddle adjustment for the future without reshimming again.

Set pickup heights to spec (see manual) and then intonation and at least you should have a base setup to then play about with to suit your style.

Cheers,
Rich

[ape]

I reckon I'm going to have to re shim for now, I did a quick one but wasn't great so will make a better one for now and see about straightening the neck at a later date, thanks for all the help chaps.

[HowieBass]

Probably worth leaving the neck for another few days to see what happens to it - it might still have a little way to go.

[ape]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1397297196' post='2422528']
Probably worth leaving the neck for another few days to see what happens to it - it might still have a little way to go.
[/quote]

Yeah to be fair I've not long ago had an heat gun on it to remove the paint off of the neck, not my preferred method but the only way of removing the really really thick Ibanez paint

[rmorris]

[quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1397247053' post='2422297']
The Fender setup guide for truss rod is to put a capo on the first fret, then depress the lowest string (E for 4, B for 5) at the last fret and then measure the gap between the string and the 7th fret. Should be 12-14 thou, about 0.35mm, a thick business card, or the like. If the string touches the 7th fret you need have too much backbow and need to slacken the truss rod, if you have a wide gap you tighten the truss rod to being the neck backwards. Before adjusting the rod make sure you drop off the string tension, adjust rod, retune, then check 7th fret gap again.

Remove capo then set saddle height at 3/32" (2.5mm) between strings and fret at the 17th fret. If you cannot get this right you need to shim the neck. In this case set saddle heights at mid adjustment and shim as required, so at least you have some saddle adjustment for the future without reshimming again.

Set pickup heights to spec (see manual) and then intonation and at least you should have a base setup to then play about with to suit your style.

Cheers,
Rich
[/quote]

In the procedure outlined - when you remove the capo and adjust saddle height the nut height (re action at first fret) must be important too it woukd seem ?

[HowieBass]

Yep, nut height is important and when too high makes fretting at that end of the neck harder than need be, but it has no bearing on fret buzz on anything other than open strings. I check nut slot height by fretting the string at the 3rd and the string should be just shy of touching the 1st fret. Nut slot height is a lot more important with fretless basses where you need the strings to be very close indeed to the fingerboard.