No wonder music shops close.

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397997707' post='2429330']
But you have a legal right to return anything bought online if you don't like it, so would you prefer an hour or two in a shop or a few days at home?
[/quote]

Although most of my guitars are from online, I bought the fretless in wunjo, and it is the reason I bought it. When I went in there I tried 6 or 7 basses, some of which I wouldn't have tried at home (such as the modern player jaguar), and they suggested the fretless, that I hadn't even thought of, so there is no way I would have bought that, let alone buy it. I am happy with it, so it does work. But on the other hand that is in london and there is nothing here that I would go to. There was one traditional music shop here (ie, grunt when you walk in but too busy to help), but they closed.

When I was a kid growing up in portsmouth, I was lucky, there were some very good shops. Telecoms (now nevada) were very tollerant of a probably irritating kid, and the other shop in new road I used to live in. The guy who ran that went off to be a missionary in india!

[lemmywinks]

I can add another +1 to Promenade Music. Great selection and very nice staff, particularly the guy in the piano/keyboard section (his son is a bassist IIRC), we were chatting to him for ages before I remembered to look at the bass stuff!

[The Funk]

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1397973856' post='2429048'] 'oh you want a bass let me slap the f#ck out of it for 5 mins first'
[/quote]

Classic. When I was starting out playing, I used to find that intimidating. I don't really see it much anymore.

Edited April 20, 2014 by The Funk

[The Funk]

[quote name='lou24d53' timestamp='1398002312' post='2429395']
I keep reading on here about how good Bass Direct are, but in my experience, they are not the 'holier than thou' retailer they are painted to be on here. I've only ordered online from them twice, but on both occasions, I have had to chase up my order.
[...]
I'm sure Bass Direct are one of, if not THE, best bass retailers in the UK, but they also are not without fault.
[/quote]

I think they're on here. You could message them and give them a chance to make it up to you.

[lou24d53]

Yeah, I was aware they are on here, but to be honest, I'm not really making a big deal out of it, and I probably would look at using them again if and when I next needing to order something. The point I was trying to make really was that even those retailers who are generally regarded as being the best of the bunch can also slip up from time to time. I guess it was only bad luck on my part that both of my orders have been this way.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1398000964' post='2429372']

It's interesting to watch the online pricing strategies of the really big retailers. I track a number of lines across two particular suppliers and the biggest of these has been quietly pushing prices up over the last 18 months. I'd initially thought some of his was currency fluctuation stuff but I've noticed that both € and £ prices have risen. I've discussed this with distributors and manufacturers and there's definitely a view that prices are quietly increasing on some key product lines.

It seems that the bigger they get, and as their completion stutters and fails, the more they are able to dictate market prices. Unsurprisingly they seem to be using their dominance to increase their operating margins. It'll be interesting to see how things develop as traditional bricks and mortar businesses fail.

Basses are, essentially, quite a niche market compared to those that have most obviously been a success online. If we end up with just a couple of really large online retail outlets I'd surmise that prices will rise rather than fall and that range of stock will reduce because profits will be easier to maximise from a limited stock holding.
[/quote]

I'm sure you're right about. Market domination by a few big players is probably not good news whether they are shops or online, but markets are dynamic and subject to constant change. There have been instances of large supermarkets moving into a town, pricing aggressively to drive out the competition, then creeping up their prices. But then that lets in new competitors and so it goes on. I read that Tesco is now under pressure from the likes of Aldi and Lidl, which is a similar sort of scenario.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397997707' post='2429330']
But you have a legal right to return anything bought online if you don't like it, so would you prefer an hour or two in a shop or a few days at home?
[/quote]

In theory, yes. In some cases, I'd have to pay the return postage, which makes it non-free to try out a bass. Even for a company that offers free returns, I just don't like the idea of having a bass shipped to me unless I'm pretty sure I want to keep it. I've bought on ebay, but the results of that have varied.

[flyfisher]

Unless you live next door to a bass shop that stocks what you want to try then travelling somewhere that does has a cost as well - financial as well as your time.

As you say, many online retailers offer free return postage so the cost of trying something in the comfort of your own home can be zero, especially of you use a credit card, which is a good idea for all sorts of reasons, and don't have to pay the bill for 4 weeks, which is plenty of time to return the item and get a full refund.

However, if you 'just don't like the idea' of using that sort of service then fair enough, it's your choice of course.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1398014331' post='2429564']
Unless you live next door to a bass shop that stocks what you want to try then travelling somewhere that does has a cost as well - financial as well as your time.

As you say, many online retailers offer free return postage so the cost of trying something in the comfort of your own home can be zero, especially of you use a credit card, which is a good idea for all sorts of reasons, and don't have to pay the bill for 4 weeks, which is plenty of time to return the item and get a full refund.

However, if you 'just don't like the idea' of using that sort of service then fair enough, it's your choice of course.
[/quote]

I suspect that my next purchase will be online, either new, ebay, gumtree, or here. Simply because there aren't many fretlesses around where I live. But, I'm keeping my eye out locally. But if I decide I want a new fretted four string, I'd certainly be looking very carefully at the shops around here. I'd [b]prefer[/b] it if the right instrument turned up in a shop around here. But as you say, particularly for the specialist things that are likely to be my future purchases, they are hard to find in shops.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1397973856' post='2429048']
Yup

[url="http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/bass/"]http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/bass/[/url]

The guys in Northampton aint too bad, but they suffer a bit from the 'oh you want a bass let me slap the f#ck out of it for 5 mins first' disease, which can be mildly annoying
[/quote]

Better than the PMT women who want to slap the f*** out of [i]you[/i] for 5 minutes!!

Edited April 20, 2014 by Count Bassy

[molan]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1398011275' post='2429512']


I'm sure you're right about. Market domination by a few big players is probably not good news whether they are shops or online, but markets are dynamic and subject to constant change. There have been instances of large supermarkets moving into a town, pricing aggressively to drive out the competition, then creeping up their prices. But then that lets in new competitors and so it goes on.
[/quote]

I agree and I'm sure this has been happening in the UK for the last 3-4 years.

From a personal perspective I think it's interesting that the three main custom build brands we represent have all seen demand for their products rise in the past year and each one has had to increase their lead times because demand has been outstripping supply

[skej21]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1398018396' post='2429618']


I agree and I'm sure this has been happening in the UK for the last 3-4 years.

From a personal perspective I think it's interesting that the three main custom build brands we represent have all seen demand for their products rise in the past year and each one has had to increase their lead times because demand has been outstripping supply
[/quote]

That's good news for me too! I could put my Fodera in now for my 30th birthday present and they'll probably have it ready just in time :-) (and give me time to pay for it lol!)

Edited April 20, 2014 by skej21

[molan]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1398018606' post='2429624']


That's good news for me too! I could put my Fodera in now for my 30th birthday present and they'll probably have it ready just in time :-) (and give me time to pay for it lol!)
[/quote]

You're 30 next June?

I thought you looked younger

[skej21]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1398018764' post='2429627']


You're 30 next June?

I thought you looked younger
[/quote]

No, I'm not! I thought the wait would be longer... I've set my sights on an Emperor 5 for my 30th (the missus promised to pay ;-)) so I'll be calling you!

[molan]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1398019400' post='2429639']
No, I'm not! I thought the wait would be longer... I've set my sights on an Emperor 5 for my 30th (the missus promised to pay ;-)) so I'll be calling you!
[/quote]

They dropped to 11 months but demand & increased production has pushed the time up to about 13 months now.

The Standards are a shorter wait time but some are limited editions so you never know exactly what the next batch will be.

I'm loving my new Monarch - currently my favourite bass and it's even been out gigging with me

[sbrag]

I think bristol is blessed with some good shops. I always find the guys in pmt and micelburgh (? Spelling) friendly and helpful and let you try stuff without being pushy. Rikaxxe can either be helpful or a bit wierd though ive had some odd conversations in there. Heron and treblerock and emis are good the interesting 2nd hand stuff and electric ladyland is probanly the most unique shop in the country. Plenty of choice and mostly good service.

Edited April 20, 2014 by sbrag

[jazzyvee]

I had a completely different experience at bass gear yesterday. I called the shop in the morning to say I was coming down to check out some basses fodera, Ritter, FBass and they could not be more helpful. They even offered to stay open later if I got there late in the day. When I arrived they were setup ready for me with a bass rig, all the details for each bass printed out in colour with a sheet informing about how all the controls work on all the basses. Even offered to restring the fodera's when I felt they sounded dull.

When I got home I'd got an email thanking me for my visit and offering to respond to any queries I had about the basses.
Now that is what I call looking after a customer.

Jazzyvee

Edited April 20, 2014 by jazzyvee

[Heket]

I am lucky to live near 2 PMTs, always had a good experience there. I also have a tiny local music shop called Rainbow music which I enjoy going to. Very limited stock, but if you want anything Fender/Fender family of brands they will order it for you in a heartbeat. I'm now taking bass lessons there. I don't think bass is as well covered as other instruments, but it's a great place to get bits and bobs from.

Bad experience - as a beginner, anywhere that makes me feel intimidated to be there. Rock Stop on Charing Cross Road was one of those.

[gelfin]

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1397948433' post='2429007']
A couple of years ago I was in a music shop in Swansea and I saw a bass I liked the look of, but the whole time I was in there the owner didn't look up from his computer. Even when I tried to talk to him he literally just grunted at me (I wish I was joking or exaggerating, but I really am not). I went back the next day, which was a Saturday, because there was something in the shop next door that I wanted to pick up, so I popped back into the music shop to have another look at the bass. Fortunately they had three very friendly and enthusiastic staff in, the owner was not there, and I got to try the bass and got a nice discount that I didn't even ask for.
I don't normally leave the house on weekends, but had no choice that day, otherwise he would have lost that sale. I actually felt bad for buying it afterwards, because I felt he didn't deserve my money, but I really like the bass. I haven't been back since though.

In fact, that week I had been to every guitar shop I could find within a thirty mile radius, about eight of them, I think. Some of them tried to be helpful, some of them didn't give a toss. The biggest problem I found was a lack of variety in stock, and only three of them had any bass stuff at all. I have only bought stuff online since, which I feel is a real shame but I have been given on other choice.
[/quote]

I guess I have the same experience in this shop, possibly on Walter Rd.
Went in on my way to another shop for work stuff.
Found a bass I was really interested in. No one seemed to want to serve so I left. When I got to work I told the manager of our shop about how useless I thought they were.
He happened to know the owner and gave him a call. I was offered a discount if I went back ( price agreed), and was told ask for the manager.
When I got there he was out, this was twenty minutes later. Tried the bass and liked it. Told the staff that the manager had agreed a price of £179.00.
They didn't question this and even threw in a strap of my choice.
The bass was a Tokai Thunderbird priced in the shop at £329.00.
If they had got it right on my first visit I would have paid the asking price.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1398012524' post='2429531']
In theory, yes. In some cases, I'd have to pay the return postage, which makes it non-free to try out a bass. Even for a company that offers free returns, I just don't like the idea of having a bass shipped to me unless I'm pretty sure I want to keep it. I've bought on ebay, but the results of that have varied.
[/quote]

Unless the shop is on your doorstep, it's never "free" to try out a bass. Travelling costs, time.

For me, being in Aberdeen, the nearest shops with basses I might wish to buy are either in Edinburgh or Glasgow (although I'm yet to check out Kenny's in Dundee). So that's at least 4 hours on the road/rails, just to try stuff which I might not buy. So you can appreciate how attractive buying online is for me when I can use those 4 hours to do something else and only have to spend £20 or so to send it back if it doesn't work out.

[KingBollock]

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1398028017' post='2429739']


I guess I have the same experience in this shop, possibly on Walter Rd.
Went in on my way to another shop for work stuff.
Found a bass I was really interested in. No one seemed to want to serve so I left. When I got to work I told the manager of our shop about how useless I thought they were.
He happened to know the owner and gave him a call. I was offered a discount if I went back ( price agreed), and was told ask for the manager.
When I got there he was out, this was twenty minutes later. Tried the bass and liked it. Told the staff that the manager had agreed a price of £179.00.
They didn't question this and even threw in a strap of my choice.
The bass was a Tokai Thunderbird priced in the shop at £329.00.
If they had got it right on my first visit I would have paid the asking price.
[/quote]
Not the same place. This one was on an industrial estate. There is a large music shop downstairs that sold classical instruments and keyboards, upstairs was my the guitar shop and further through was a PA shop that I had to pick something up from, so I actually had to pass through the guitar shop to get there. I can't be sure that the bloke I got ignored by was an owner or a manager, I can, however, be sure that he was a grumpy twat in the wrong job.

At the time I was looking for a 4x10 cab. I was in one shop where I found an Orange cab. A young lad spotted me looking at it and started talking to me. Not about the cab, he was just talking like the clappers about all sorts of unrelated stuff. I kept trying to get him to give me a price, as there wasn't one on it. I had a feeling it was going to be more than I was prepared to pay, I told him how much I had and he just kept talking. The cab was in a really poor looking condition, so I was a little hopeful that they might come down to my price range. After almost half an hour he disappeared upstairs to see how much it was. He came back and gave me a price that I later found out was only just shy of the price of a brand new one. But he still kept talking at me, again not about the cab, it took another ten minutes to get out of the shop.

I had given up finding a cab, I was positive that I didn't want to buy one online, that's why I ended up buying the bass from the other place. After buying the bass I did have a look online for cabs and actually decided on one that I saw on the GAK site, but where it said about delivery it said to call them on the phone. So my wife called them and they were actually quite rude to her, treating her as though she was stupid because it obviously meant they didn't have it in stock so it was pointless calling them! I haven't bought from them since, either. I did actually find a 4x10 online that was local and he only wanted £40 for it, so I got that and it's been great.

[molan]

One interesting little observation I have about instrument retailers is that almost all of them are 'players'.

A lot of them are relatively young, have been through years of learning at school, university or music academy type places

After all this preparation for a career in 'music' they end up flogging guitars in a shop because there's either so few opportunities to earn money playing or they simply didn't have whatever it took to get into the band they really wanted.

This can often result in a resentful workforce who look down on their customers.

I'm not defending this attitude one bit, I've always thought that if you do any job you should try and do it to the best of your abilities, but it might explain some of the attitudinal issues from some music shop staff

[icastle]

One of the first jobs I had on leaving college some 30 years ago was in music retail.

There were shops renowned for their surliness and complacency even back then, and that's without the internet spreading the word.

[Len_derby]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1398068926' post='2429964']
One of the first jobs I had on leaving college some 30 years ago was in music retail.

There were shops renowned for their surliness and complacency even back then, and that's without the internet spreading the word.
[/quote]

So true, and this was also often the case for independent book retailers. See the pattern?

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='lou24d53' timestamp='1398002312' post='2429395']
I keep reading on here about how good Bass Direct are, but in my experience, they are not the 'holier than thou' retailer they are painted to be on here.[/quote]

+1

They have got probably the best selection of bass gear, but customer service is awful.

My girlfriend bought me a Darkglass B3K for Christmas from the online shop, and when it came it was so badly packaged that the knobs were covered in scratches. I know that's only cosmetic damage, but it was so bad that she contacted them to ask if it was second hand. Not what you expect if you pay full price... Especially because you can get one used on here in better condition for a lot less! Cue a condescending email from Mark, which included a comment along the lines of "To be fair love, it's designed to be stepped on"

I don't know if that's his general attitude, or because he assumed my girlfriend was some kind of bimbo. Apparently he'd only changed his tune when she replied to him from her work email (she's a lawyer working for a large firm), but the solution was still one I would have been unhappy with. He told her to pull the knobs off and post them back and he would send replacements

I'm happy with my pedal and everything, but Bass Direct are lucky that they didn't lose a sale from it being returned under the distance selling regulations (even though they have lost any future business from me)