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Gig promoters and the "pound per head" policy


topheteatwo
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Hello all, I have some opinions to gather up from you all.

As you'll see, I'm from Belfast which is an awkward area of the world considering that we're attached to one country but are part of another country and naturally, we want to tour the UK, even though we're separated from it, a ferry can cost the upwards of £400 for 4 people and a van which for young bands with no money, that is a lot.

So we gathered the cash and went on tour back in July, it went well apart from a few scrapes (bands pulling out last minute, van getting towed in London) but we had the last date in Manchester, I'm not gonna name and shame. The venue was great, lovely basement type venue, nice and big with a good bar (Guinness on tap too, extra points) and the gig was good, people seemed to really enjoy it.

Prior to the gig we had agreed to a £20 petrol fee in order to get us from Manchester to Liverpool for the ferry to Dublin and right back up to Belfast and they had humbly agreed to this. After the show I approached the promoter to get our pay after she had praised us for being one of the best bands of the night, we even had a nice chat about the venue, who had played and why she loves putting on bands, it was really quite touching to hear passion from someone. That passion was short lived, when I asked her for our pay she pulled out a sheet of paper and consulted this paper for a good 5 minutes and turned and said "Only 3 people said that they came to see you, you'll be getting £3 tonight, we hope to see you again". At first I thought she was joking and I asked "What about the £20 we had agreed on in e-mail" She said that it was the venues policy to only pay the bands who had people to come and see them. In a fit of rage and I kind of caused a ruckus in the venue, saying some things I'm not exactly proud of and ended up being ejected by the bouncers, they wouldn't even let our drummer to go in and collect his drum stool, so that was about £50 lost. We were furious and I was shocked that this policy even existed, thankfully due to the generosity of the local support bands, we got £10 from their pay.

This has happened again today trying to book a venue for Sheffield and we were told that we couldn't even get our petrol paid and that they had the same policy.

I'm writing this because I know that a majority of Basschat is based in England and I'm just asking, is this normal? We played Scotland and we got paid £50-£100 a night and a place to crash. Why in England does this policy exist, or am I naive in my little Belfast bubble that is this of the norm?

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thats ridiculous!

some venues really do take the mick, they have made alot more than 20 quid while you were playing!

its the same as when they cancel live music evening because of turn out but will only give you a tuesday night! i dnt think id have excepted the money, thing is venues (some not all) will happily pay a covers bands 250 if not more for an evening but a original band even if they cram the venue will struggle to as you did cover petrol.

also how is a band touring the uk for the first time trying to get noticed meant to bring people atleast you seemed to have sound support bands

andy

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Lovely support bands

And Wooks79

Bar Bloc - Glasgow, free pizza and a pint too
20 Rocks - Dundee, don't go in summer, no students to fill the place
Bannermans - Edinburgh, they give you an entire apartment with about 9 beds and a stacked fridge
The Bungalow - Paisley, got £150 here

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[quote name='topheteatwo' timestamp='1398194122' post='2431552']
Lovely support bands

And Wooks79

Bar Bloc - Glasgow, free pizza and a pint too
20 Rocks - Dundee, don't go in summer, no students to fill the place
Bannermans - Edinburgh, they give you an entire apartment with about 9 beds and a stacked fridge
The Bungalow - Paisley, got £150 here
[/quote]

Cheers man, if you end up popping over again, lemme know and I will get something sorted out for you in Middlesbrough.

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[quote name='topheteatwo' timestamp='1398192414' post='2431514']
Hello all, I have some opinions to gather up from you all.

As you'll see, I'm from Belfast which is an awkward area of the world considering that we're attached to one country but are part of another country and naturally, we want to tour the UK, even though we're separated from it, a ferry can cost the upwards of £400 for 4 people and a van which for young bands with no money, that is a lot.

So we gathered the cash and went on tour back in July, it went well apart from a few scrapes (bands pulling out last minute, van getting towed in London) but we had the last date in Manchester, I'm not gonna name and shame. The venue was great, lovely basement type venue, nice and big with a good bar (Guinness on tap too, extra points) and the gig was good, people seemed to really enjoy it.

Prior to the gig we had agreed to a £20 petrol fee in order to get us from Manchester to Liverpool for the ferry to Dublin and right back up to Belfast and they had humbly agreed to this. After the show I approached the promoter to get our pay after she had praised us for being one of the best bands of the night, we even had a nice chat about the venue, who had played and why she loves putting on bands, it was really quite touching to hear passion from someone. That passion was short lived, when I asked her for our pay she pulled out a sheet of paper and consulted this paper for a good 5 minutes and turned and said "Only 3 people said that they came to see you, you'll be getting £3 tonight, we hope to see you again". At first I thought she was joking and I asked "What about the £20 we had agreed on in e-mail" She said that it was the venues policy to only pay the bands who had people to come and see them. In a fit of rage and I kind of caused a ruckus in the venue, saying some things I'm not exactly proud of and ended up being ejected by the bouncers, they wouldn't even let our drummer to go in and collect his drum stool, so that was about £50 lost. We were furious and I was shocked that this policy even existed, thankfully due to the generosity of the local support bands, we got £10 from their pay.

This has happened again today trying to book a venue for Sheffield and we were told that we couldn't even get our petrol paid and that they had the same policy.

I'm writing this because I know that a majority of Basschat is based in England and I'm just asking, is this normal? We played Scotland and we got paid £50-£100 a night and a place to crash. Why in England does this policy exist, or am I naive in my little Belfast bubble that is this of the norm?
[/quote]
Please tell me at least one of you or your band mates have looked in to the Musician's Union? They are the people to contact to help sort any and all problems presented by gigging live. If you have it in writing then you can, if you're a member refer the matter to them to try and sort out.

As for the venues on the naming and shaming, I'd love to know the Sheffield venue? Sheffield is traditionally meant to be a great music city?!

Also, if you're planning on coming as far south as Portsmouth, PM me and I'll try and sort you out with some advice on who and where to avoid!

Edited by JamesBass
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[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1398196611' post='2431595']
Please tell me at least one of you or your band mates have looked in to the Musician's Union? They are the people to contact to help sort any and all problems presented by gigging live. If you have it in writing then you can, if you're a member refer the matter to them to try and sort out.

As for the venues on the naming and shaming, I'd love to know the Sheffield venue? Sheffield is traditionally meant to be a great music city?!

Also, if you're planning on coming as far south as Portsmouth, PM me and I'll try and sort you out with some advice on who and where to avoid!
[/quote]

Unfortunately I've since deleted the e-mail to clear space and I don't wanna go into so much fuss for it.

Once again, I'm looking for a gig in Southampton and it's proving difficult at the moment, but if the e-mails I've sent don't work then I'll get onto you for Portsmouth! Cheers!

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When you say . . . .

[i]"Prior to the gig we had agreed to a £20 petrol fee in order to get us from Manchester to Liverpool for the ferry to Dublin and right back up to Belfast and they had humbly agreed to this."[/i]

. . . . did you get their agreement in writing?

If so, why would you not want to 'name and shame' someone who has clearly broken a contractual agreement in order to help prevent other bands falling victim to this sort of desicable behaviour.

If not, er . . . . . at least you now know how much verbal agreements are worth. :(

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Like I said, we cleared our inbox and the e-mail got deleted so the agreement was gone but yes, I can remember asking for petrol money and they had said yes.

I've named and shamed before and it's come back to me in a bad way, but that just comes from living in a tiny city with a lot of bands and music, it comes back to you, I forgot to realise that it's Manchester in question.

Just a force of habit.

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[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1398198611' post='2431636']
That kind of BS does exist in Scotland as well, thankfully I've only ever encountered it a couple of times.
[/quote]

From where I've been and played in Scotland, everyone has been hospitable to the point of making us want to hug every Scottish person we came in contact with. Lovely country. lovely people and from the experience I've gathered from other NI bands touring, Scotland is the gigging promised land of the UK compared to England, sorry England.

Although, I've got loads of things to say about Huddersfield for example, we were booked for a venue that I can't remember the name of and last minute we managed to ring up The Zephyr Bar and they put us on, gave us 2 free pints each, paid us directly out of the bar till and 2 of the bar staff bought a CD and shirt.

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[quote name='topheteatwo' timestamp='1398198471' post='2431634']
Like I said, we cleared our inbox and the e-mail got deleted so the agreement was gone but yes, I can remember asking for petrol money and they had said yes.
[/quote]

Well, it's never a good idea to destroy legal documents when they are your only protection against sharp practice - but I guess you know that now.

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[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1398199294' post='2431647']
Well, it's never a good idea to destroy legal documents when they are your only protection against sharp practice - but I guess you know that now.
[/quote]

Learn and live on!

Edited by topheteatwo
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[quote name='topheteatwo' timestamp='1398197119' post='2431602']
Unfortunately I've since deleted the e-mail to clear space and I don't wanna go into so much fuss for it.

Once again, I'm looking for a gig in Southampton and it's proving difficult at the moment, but if the e-mails I've sent don't work then I'll get onto you for Portsmouth! Cheers!
[/quote]
No worries, where are you trying for in Southampton? I'll drop you a PM with my email address in it :)

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