A whole new world...with one thing missing...

[Muzz]

OK, so in the ever-progressing search for a less-heavy-lift and less-cabling gigging life, we've got a decent Presonus desk and RCF PA now, and we've moved to wireless IEMs, so accordingly I've started using my iPad for digital amps/FX models, and it's a major leap forward. My setup is either basses>SonicPort>iPad>FX Return of Streamliner>DI out to PA or basses>SonicPort>iPad>PA, which means I can either run some backline or not, depending on venue requirements.

This is such a major step forward I can't believe it - I can now hear myself perfectly, I have an individual mix (controlled via iPhone or iPad) in my ears, and best of all I can control the volume. My tinnitus thanks me. The amp models in the Jamup app are very very good (certainly good enough for what I need), and the FX are good enough for the job, too. I think I've spent less than £100 on all the EQ end, which includes half a dozen amp models, all the FX I'll ever need, tuner, plus some great jamming tools like speed and pitch control for playalong with my music library. Oh, and dozens of easy-to-set presets with full EQ/FX chains - Tony Levin's Sledgehammer to Duff to Jamerson to Marcus in a swipe of the finger...

Even when we're not using in-ears, I'm still using the iPad and Jamup instead of the EQ on the Streamliner: it's just much more versatile.

The only thing missing for the setup, and given the rise in this sort of thing, I'd consider it to be a pretty big hole in the market, is a small, portable Class D power amp: something along the lines of the GK MBs in size, I'd say 500w would be plenty. I know there's the SWR Amplite, but they're hardly common, and MB did kinda edge that way with their modular efforts, but there's still gotta be scope for one of the big manufacturers to just strip out their EQ, simplify the front panel, drop the price accordingly, and I think they'd sell very well.

Anyone else think so?

Edited April 23, 2014 by Muzz

[discreet]

Yes. Even without a hi-tech setup I think people would like a portable heft-box. I've been down the pre/power route a couple of times and what put me off in the end was the size of the power amps, which are usually at least 2U X 19" and need to be racked up.

A power amp that would fit in a gig bag must surely be a winner.

Edited April 23, 2014 by discreet

[charic]

Yup, could work well

[Beer of the Bass]

Would leaving the preamp out drop the price that much, given that they'd sell fewer of them than the regular heads and lose out on some economy of scale?

[Musicman20]

I think the pre/etc would probably not drop the price that much, and its good to have a real amp (so to speak!) ready if you need it.

I think the best bet is just to get the smallest/most reliable Class D amp, such as the Shuttle 9.2/Streamliner 900/GK MB500 or 800.

Carvin is another option, and very very good value.

Its definitely a route I'd like to test out as all I'd need is the Sonic Port.

[CamdenRob]

I'd buy one.... Then again I'd buy almost anything if it was shiny...

[mrtcat]

I think as mentioned before that the demand may not be sufficiently high to bring prices down. However a decent small class d amp with minimal colouration in a tidy package would surely be popular enough with many people even if it's not much cheaper than a version with pre built in.
I'd love to play with people who would embrace this approach but sadly every time I mention it to either of my bands I get derision and looks of disgust from all involved.

[No lust in Jazz]

[color=#222222]I have the Demeter Minnie 800D - it’s great, expensive for what it is, but never the less small, uncluttered, clean and powerfull - ideal for the route you've taken.[/color]

[color=#222222]For far less money I get very similar results running into the FX return of a 2nd hand D class amp, I know this as I've A/B'd my Monique with a LM3 and the Demeter and in band environment you wouldn't know which is which.[/color]

[color=#222222]FWIW I agree with you, however, if one manufacturer did this other than sell cheap power amps what's in it for them? They can't add the hubris regarding tones particular to a manufacturer when selling their heads - imagine not needing them as you could run modelling software, or buy a preamp to suit your own tastes.[/color]

[color=#222222]I'd like Bergantino to re-launch their IP cabs[/color]

[Muzz]

Well, I'm using the power stage of my Streamliner 900 quite happily at the mo, but it just seems a waste of all those nice tubes

The Demeter is sort of what I had in mind, but not quite as, erm, boutique


Oh, and CamdenRob, it's VERY shiny...

[Happy Jack]

+1 to the GK MB500.

Leave the controls flat (or flat to your own ears, anyway) and just use it for the power section.

If something elsewhere in your signal chain goes belly-up at a gig, you may find that having a complete, good-quality, tiny head is a boon.

[Muzz]

What're you saying about my head?

[discreet]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1398258064' post='2432119']
...having a complete, good-quality, tiny head is a boon.
[/quote]

[size=4] Typical - mine gets less complete, poorer-quality and bigger as time goes on.[/size]

Edited April 23, 2014 by discreet

[No lust in Jazz]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1398258064' post='2432119']
If something elsewhere in your signal chain goes belly-up at a gig, you may find that having a complete, good-quality, tiny head is a boon.
[/quote]

Very good point

Also, you don't get a DI out on the Demeter; its generally done via the Pre amp, so (to me) its not obvious how you would feed a desk - with a D class head you generally have a DI provided.

[Rumple]

I know nothing about amps but I'm guessing there's reasons something like a Class D car audio system amp for a sub speaker couldn't be adapted to work as a power amp for bass guitar? they seem small, powerful and reasonably priced.

[discreet]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1398258064' post='2432119']
+1 to the GK MB500. Leave the controls flat (or flat to your own ears, anyway) and just use it for the power section.
[/quote]

Another +1 for the GK MB500. Though I think the Fusion preamp is God's gift to bass players!
[size=4]I have used a Markbass LM in this way however, with a variety of preamps and drivers in front of it - BDI-21, VTBass, Zoom B3, and so on - with some great results.[/size]

Edited April 23, 2014 by discreet

[karlfer]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1398248571' post='2431985']
OK, so in the ever-progressing search for a less-heavy-lift and less-cabling gigging life, we've got a decent Presonus desk and RCF PA now, and we've moved to wireless IEMs, so accordingly I've started using my iPad for digital amps/FX models, and it's a major leap forward. My setup is either basses>SonicPort>iPad>FX Return of Streamliner>DI out to PA or basses>SonicPort>iPad>PA, which means I can either run some backline or not, depending on venue requirements.

This is such a major step forward I can't believe it - I can now hear myself perfectly, I have an individual mix (controlled via iPhone or iPad) in my ears, and best of all I can control the volume. My tinnitus thanks me. The amp models in the Jamup app are very very good (certainly good enough for what I need), and the FX are good enough for the job, too. I think I've spent less than £100 on all the EQ end, which includes half a dozen amp models, all the FX I'll ever need, tuner, plus some great jamming tools like speed and pitch control for playalong with my music library. Oh, and dozens of easy-to-set presets with full EQ/FX chains - Tony Levin's Sledgehammer to Duff to Jamerson to Marcus in a swipe of the finger...

Even when we're not using in-ears, I'm still using the iPad and Jamup instead of the EQ on the Streamliner: it's just much more versatile.

The only thing missing for the setup, and given the rise in this sort of thing, I'd consider it to be a pretty big hole in the market, is a small, portable Class D power amp: something along the lines of the GK MBs in size, I'd say 500w would be plenty. I know there's the SWR Amplite, but they're hardly common, and MB did kinda edge that way with their modular efforts, but there's still gotta be scope for one of the big manufacturers to just strip out their EQ, simplify the front panel, drop the price accordingly, and I think they'd sell very well.

Anyone else think so?
[/quote]

Muzz, you lost me at basses>

Mine is bass>curly lead> GK MB 500> Barefaced S12V. About 43lbs in all.
Mind, my GK is currently languishing in the for sales, but I doubt it will be getting replaced by anything other than the latest eruption creating car radio amp

[molan]

I know a couple of people running a Monique pre-amp through an Aguilar Tone Hammer power stage. Sounds really nice and has graced a few very large stages

We ran a head to head of the Demeter Minnie and the Tone Hammer (plus a low cost lightweight Carvin rack unit and a high cost, bloody heavy, 3u rack amp).

The Minnie was most definitely the winner, especially at high volumes, but the Tone Hammer came very close and you effectively get the pre-amp for free vs the Minnie. For a little bit of on-stage oomph the TH350 might even do the job, it's surprisingly loud (especially into a 4ohm load).

[No lust in Jazz]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1398271390' post='2432330']
I know a couple of people running a Monique pre-amp through an Aguilar Tone Hammer power stage. Sounds really nice and has graced a few very large stages

We ran a head to head of the Demeter Minnie and the Tone Hammer (plus a low cost lightweight Carvin rack unit and a high cost, bloody heavy, 3u rack amp).

The Minnie was most definitely the winner, especially at high volumes, but the Tone Hammer came very close and you effectively get the pre-amp for free vs the Minnie. For a little bit of on-stage oomph the TH350 might even do the job, it's surprisingly loud (especially into a 4ohm load).
[/quote]

I wouldn't disagree with any of this and if it were my money I'd run the iPad + Software into the power stage of a class D for the reasons highlighted.

[Phil Starr]

Why do you need an amp? All the eq is done and the monitoring is through in ears, so you only need to be louder and only need something with a flat output. Go straight into the PA and the audience should hear what you do through the in ears. If you or the rest of the band need some on-stage bass then use an active PA speaker, possibly a wedge, possibly not, with the flat class D amp you want already built in. Why carry a box, which for the way you are set up is not needed.

Decent PA speakers should handle bass as well as a bass speaker and if you have DSP built in then there should be no way of blowing the speaker.

[No lust in Jazz]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1398272311' post='2432351']
Why do you need an amp? All the eq is done and the monitoring is through in ears, so you only need to be louder and only need something with a flat output. Go straight into the PA and the audience should hear what you do through the in ears. If you or the rest of the band need some on-stage bass then use an active PA speaker, possibly a wedge, possibly not, with the flat class D amp you want already built in. Why carry a box, which for the way you are set up is not needed.

Decent PA speakers should handle bass as well as a bass speaker and if you have DSP built in then there should be no way of blowing the speaker.
[/quote]


Without a pre amp DI out (or Class D head as discussed) how do you get a signal into the PA, or is there a wire from the iPad into the PA?

[Phil Starr]

I'm assuming he will use the same output he feeds into his current amp or that he intends feeding into his class D amp.

[No lust in Jazz]

Yes, with you now, I was getting hung up with the XLR out.

[Subthumper]

Wouldn't a lightweight active cab be the answer? Something like a barefaced with a class d module in. Just hook up the mains and your signal input. Would be a doodle.

[Subthumper]

Or even a doodle.

[karlfer]

[quote name='Subthumper' timestamp='1398282018' post='2432528']
Or even a doodle.
[/quote]

Take 3 ?