Mornats Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Well, fairly fresh ears... I couldn't wait I started this earlier this afternoon and wanted to see if I could complete it to a decent level the same day. I've been reading and watching videos on the Recording Revolution website and this is the first test to see if I've picked anything up. The main difference from earlier recording is that I'm recording at lower volumes and getting the levels right before going into EQ/compression/other tricks. Also, this pre-empts my NBD thread by showcasing my newly acquired SB320. A proper thread with pics will be forthcoming https://soundcloud.com/mornats/one-two-three-oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubis Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1399920812' post='2449013'] My usual laconic comment, for this and many other situations... It's the first 40 years which are the worst, after which things get (slightly...) better. We're all in the same boat, it seems. [/quote]........but some of us don't have a paddle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 [quote name='rubis' timestamp='1400405720' post='2453461'] ........but some of us don't have a paddle [/quote] You won't need a paddle; it's plain sailing all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 This may help out some of those who, like me not so long ago, would think "how the hell do you come up with a tune? where do you get a chord sequence from?". Well I got mine from a book! Rikky Rooksby wrote a book called "How to Write Songs on Guitar" (http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/rikky+rooksby/how+to+write+songs+on+guitar/6379208/). It has a chart that shows you which chords belong together in different keys. So started with a C# as one my vocal samples started with that and I chose the I II bVI V (first, second, flattened 6th and fifth) chords from that sequence. The first, second and fifth are quite common but I thought the flattened 6th (an A in the key of C#) would add a bit of imbalance to it. For the bridge bit I wanted a different sequence but one related to the main sequence. So I started on the flattened third (an E#m which is actually an F when it's at home and not in the C# key) and used the same chord numbers but in a different order: I bVI V II (first, flattened 6th, fifth then second). So I got my main sequence as C# D#m A G# and my bridgey bit as F Db C Gm. I picked them from the book, then played single notes to see if they worked then just went straight at it. I auto-tuned the vocal samples to match. On one bit I play a melody that's meant to follow the chord sequence but I actually play the sequence too fast and play F Db C Gm over then F and Db synth chords then play it again over the C and Gm chords. It may sound crap or maybe just adds to the unsettled feel (which is what I was going for). This is also the first attempt at double-tracking guitars. I usually record a guitar riff, pan it all the way to the left, duplicate it and pan that all the way to the right. I sometimes slightly offset one from the other by a fraction of a second to help fill out the sound. This time I recorded roughly the same thing in two different takes. Any (in this case many!) discrepancies helps fill out the sound in a more natural way. The bass simply stays within the chord notes of whichever chord it's playing over. Sometimes when I come up with a bassline I try to find a run from one chord to another using notes that are present in both chords (or using semi-tone steps in between) but this time I didn't. It takes a lot of working out if you don't know your chord notes all that well like me. I did most of my mixing at low volume after reading advice from the Recording Revolution and this helped a lot. I still need to go back and tweak levels on everything as that melodic lead guitar (which is a synth by the way) seems too loud and is pushing the rest of the track into the background so it loses punch. However I wanted to see if I could get a track from nothing to published on the same day. I normally spend a week tweaking and mixing, mostly mixing and I have a habit of not knowing when to walk away. Everything other than the bass and the kick drum were highpassed at around 200hz to give space to these two. I used sidechain compression so that when the kick hits it ducks the volume of the bass. (Try this on vocals and guitars. Duck the guitars a little when the vocals are on if they tend to clash. Try using a multiband compressor to just duck the offending frequency range if you don't want to EQ that frequency range out altogether.) These are the blog posts that helped me: http://therecordingrevolution.com/2014/05/12/why-chris-lord-alge-mixes-fast-and-doesnt-look-back/ http://therecordingrevolution.com/2014/05/05/the-late-night-mixing-plan-part-1/ http://therecordingrevolution.com/2014/02/12/stop-recording-so-hot-into-your-daw/ And the one I didn't follow on this track, mainly because I just plain forgot, was to mix in mono (I can't find that post, maybe it was in his newsletter) to get your levels right then sort out the panning and stereo width. So that's the etymology of my track (if that's the right word). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1400412427' post='2453545'] This may help out some... ... So that's the etymology of my track (if that's the right word). [/quote] Excellent..! If you can do swimming lessons too, I might have a better chance in the pool this summer..! A very neat, concise run-down on how to take the plunge; well done. As to the resulting track: we'll see how the voting goes a bit later on, but it's already holding its head above water. Very clear, nice 'balance'. I too used a 'countdown' element; coincidence..? Thanks for sharing your trade secrets; I'm sure we'll all be able to find something applicable, and surely others will equally expose their different ways of pulling the strings. For my part, could I suggest the Circle of Fifths as another source of inspiration when looking for chord movement..? I tried 'pot luck' for several years, but wasn't very lucky, unfortunately..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Here is mine. It doesn't sound like I want it to because I cannot play any of the instruments I 'heard' performing it. I wanted it to sound like the Dave Holland band with Chris Potter, Robin Eubanks, Steve Nelson and Billy Kilson. But I cannot play any of those instruments remotely well enough and haven't got the right VSTs either so this is a kind of bastard version of the piece I had in mind!! The only instruments that are not VSTs are the guitars and they are only an approximation of my developing idea. Everything else, including the basses, is programmed. It is, I guess, a demo of a tune rather than a performance of it. https://soundcloud.com/robert-palmer-1/springheel-jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 [color=#b22222][size=5][b]A quick note to say that the deadline for entries has been extended by a day to [u]midnight on Sunday 25th[/u].[/b][/size][/color] This is because I won't be at my computer on the 24th, so we might as well offer up an extra day for people to get busy with. I'll extend the voting by a day to compensate. As you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 If it arrives in time and I can actually remember how to do it, my entry will include some bowed electric bass, for full post-rock pretentiousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 [quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1400499449' post='2454344'] bowed electric bass [/quote] Tell me more! What is it? Where can I get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Hopefully I'll finish mine tonight, Mix it tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Would uploading a tweaked mix be within the rules? No worries if not, I'll upload it afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1400415271' post='2453580'] Excellent..! If you can do swimming lessons too, I might have a better chance in the pool this summer..! A very neat, concise run-down on how to take the plunge; well done. As to the resulting track: we'll see how the voting goes a bit later on, but it's already holding its head above water. Very clear, nice 'balance'. I too used a 'countdown' element; coincidence..? Thanks for sharing your trade secrets; I'm sure we'll all be able to find something applicable, and surely others will equally expose their different ways of pulling the strings. For my part, could I suggest the Circle of Fifths as another source of inspiration when looking for chord movement..? I tried 'pot luck' for several years, but wasn't very lucky, unfortunately..! [/quote] No one's going to drown following any songwriting advice I may give out so I'll leave it at that Thanks for the comments, I'm eager to hear the rest but I like to listen to them all after the deadline so I'm not tempted to tweak mine. This is the first track of my own that I've done in almost a year now as I've been focusing on recording my band's music. I'm hoping I've learnt a lot in that time! I've touched upon the circle of fifths in my bass lessons but I need to go into it in more detail. I'm useless at learning any theory unless I can put it into a practical application straight away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1400538606' post='2454871'] Would uploading a tweaked mix be within the rules? No worries if not, I'll upload it afterwards. [/quote] the composition would be expected to be written, recorded and produced after the publication of the photo which is intended to provide the inspiration , so anything done before then would be an infringement of the rules . you can do as much work or rework to a qualifying composition as long as you identify it as your entry, so that it can be linked to . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Oh, I should be ok then. I'm only tweaking the mix that I did at the weekend for the comp so all within the time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1400575277' post='2454992'] Oh, I should be ok then. I'm only tweaking the mix that I did at the weekend for the comp so all within the time period. [/quote] Tweak away, lad; tweak away, although why one would want to gild such a lily is beyond me..! I've done it myself on occasion; it's a bit of a pain in the rear for me, as I have to upload anew into Soundcloud (can't simply replace the track...), so I try (and fail... ) to be sure to be finished before publishing. Perfectly legitimate, so tweak away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1400499935' post='2454348'] Tell me more! What is it? Where can I get one? [/quote] Nothing more impressive than my normal bass played very badly with a cello bow I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 [quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1400607113' post='2455428'] Nothing more impressive than my normal bass played very badly with a cello bow I'm afraid. [/quote] Cool I've got a normal bass that I can play very badly so all I'll need is a bow! [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1400590876' post='2455188'] Tweak away, lad; tweak away, although why one would want to gild such a lily is beyond me..! I've done it myself on occasion; it's a bit of a pain in the rear for me, as I have to upload anew into Soundcloud (can't simply replace the track...), so I try (and fail... ) to be sure to be finished before publishing. Perfectly legitimate, so tweak away... [/quote] You flatter me kind sir The changes I've got laid out are the following (to continue my etymology): I watched this with interest: http://therecordingrevolution.com/2014/04/30/put-on-a-coat-of-mix-buss-polish-video/ then did what it said. It's given the mix a bit more, something..., not sure what but it sounds good so far. The timing was out on some of the melodic guitar synth notes so I quantised those. I try to record "natural" midi on my keyboard but sometimes small human timing errors stand out too much. The electric guitar has been changed. First, it's a little more in your face. I was listening to Rage Against the Machine's Renegades of Funk which has a great guitar riff and noticed that the riff sat right above the mix, right in your face. Mine then sounded like a shy little kid at the back of the class. So Iv'e pulled the guitar forwards. Which then highlighted the fact that I really need guitar lessons. It's a mess! Well, the single drawn out notes sound nice, the first main riff rocks the right stuff but the rest is ropey. So it's a record for that bit. And that's it. I've listened to it enough, on many different devices and have spotted all the flaws. Any more will be nit-picking so I'll restrain myself to those edits. I'll upload mine over the old track later on tonight (a feature that I felt was worth paying for so I upgraded my account almost as soon as I got it). Not being able to do this will be a nice constraint to have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I've got a new version up. I'm all tweaked out so that's my final one! https://soundcloud.com/mornats/one-two-three-oh (same link, but updated file). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1400620786' post='2455634']...I'm all tweaked out so that's my final one!...[/quote] That's what they all say..! Yes, there are discernible improvements; well done. I'll wait until all this month's challenge is over, then confide my 'secret' weapons, too. I watched the video you linked to, and echoes were struck, although using different (less sophisticated..?) tools. I'll go into greater detail later on, but it could be interesting to compare notes. To be continued... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 hi guys, heres my entry for this month. Pitchy vocals and a very bad mix but I don't have time for anything else as Im away for a week starting tomorrow. Not strictly adhering to the photo but i found the guy was influencing me more than the photo so I tried to detach myself from what I already knew about the guy..... if that makes sense. Anyway here it is. I hope you like it. https://soundcloud.com/theboysings/when-you-feel-like-letting-go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hi, Mines finished but i can't tell whether the track is distorting/clipping. I'm having latency issues and ain't sure if my headphones are on the way out or not. could you all just have a listen to this section of the piece and tell me what you think. Thank you very much! https://soundcloud.com/dreaded-ted/section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1400763121' post='2456739']...tell me what you think...[/quote] I've not got top-notch 'cans' myself, but the low bass here sounds distorted to me. Could be my headset; it's damned loud, though..! I had to seriously turn down from my 'normal' listening level. Hope this helps; others will doubtless chip in, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 cheers pal, that's what i thought. Something is going wrong between mixdowns. Cheers, now to sort it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timhiggins Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1400763121' post='2456739'] Hi, Mines finished but i can't tell whether the track is distorting/clipping. I'm having latency issues and ain't sure if my headphones are on the way out or not. could you all just have a listen to this section of the piece and tell me what you think. Thank you very much! [url="https://soundcloud.com/dreaded-ted/section"]https://soundcloud.c...ded-ted/section[/url] [/quote]I concur with dad, it sounds like its clipping /peaking ...sounded great though ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Houghton Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Sounds like its clipping to me Lord Sausage, too much gain. Sounds great though, cant wait to hear the finished version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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