Westie9 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Apologies if this has already been covered but we've got a wedding gig coming up and the venue has sent us a very comprehenisve list of do and don'ts including playing within the limits of their fitted sound limiter. Part of the requirement is that live music is below 98 decibels in accordance with their license. A quick web search states that 98dB's is equivalent to a farm tractor!...??? How do you monitor what level you are playing at? Does anyone use some form of meter that tells them if they are close? I can't think of anything more embarassing than going into a chorus to find the thing trips all the band's electrics out!!! Any advice or recomendations (other than playing quietly) would be most welcome.... Edited June 25, 2014 by Westie9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Unfortunately it is not quite that simple. The meter continuously monitors the sound level, and if it stays above the limit for long enough, the power goes off. You get a warning via the traffic lights beforehand. I hate playing with one eye on the traffic lights, especially when it is crowd noise that is lighting the red! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The limiter is usually hooked up to the mains circuit in that room, so that it cuts the power once you've gone into the red. If at all possible, try to subtly (or with management permission) get your power from an adjoining room via extension leads. Or switch the limiter off. They are a serious pain - we had one cut the power after the first snare strike while setting up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1403719607' post='2485639']...we had one cut the power after the first snare strike while setting up [/quote] That certainly kept the drum noise down..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Awful devices, certain frequencys upset them more than others, snare drum being number one but I have seen them trip at volumes levels not much more than you would have the wireless on in an old folks home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutSpoon Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 This really is the worst possible gig. Had it happen 3-4 times and each time the gig was rubbish. We were even telling the crowd to 'shush' - which just isn't cool. Any venue with a sound limited shouldn't be booking live bands. Add this to the fact that a lot of equipment is sensitive to rapid power loss and you have a recipe for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom skool Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Ask if you can bypass it and just have them keep an eye on it to see if you should turn down or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 [quote name='tom skool' timestamp='1403723347' post='2485691'] Ask if you can bypass it and just have them keep an eye on it to see if you should turn down or not. [/quote] They are usually fitted due to complaints to the council from local residents, the council will do spot checks, if found bypassed (you cant bypass them, only plug into a kitchen socket or similar) the venue loses its entertainment licence on the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutSpoon Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Just refuse to play - seriously. You will have to play so quietly it is a joke. And bass is even worse for tripping out the levels than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanrock Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 We did a wedding where the venue was fitted with a limiter. It cut the power as soon as the vocalist opened his mouth! The downside however, was we had to play at a ridiculously low volume even using an extension lead into the room next door! A regular venue we used to play now involves the landlady walking around the outside of the building with a handheld meter and getting us to turn right down. She even asked the drummer to use "softer sticks"! We now refuse any gig that involves sound limiters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not good for digital desks. Last one we did, we lost power twice before I started screaming and rending my hair etc. The management taped some bog roll over the mic and that helped a lot. The DJ had found power from the kitchen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westie9 Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Sounds like its going to be a great one!!! We'll try and get a power source from outside the room in case it does go... As a rough guide I'll monitor it via an app I've found but 98dBs does sound very low... Hopefully as mentioned above it has a traffic light system so at least I can see something during the gig. Can't wait...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I first encountered one of these around 15 years ago at one of our regular pub gigs who'd had complaints from their neighbours. Killed the venue stone dead, and we wound up not playing there at all. I believe limits now are even lower than they were then, so how modern bands manage with such things I can only guess! Not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratman Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 As much as I hate limiters, I have to deal with them quite regularly. My band loves to play at a decent volume, but when faced with one of these we find the limit of the limiter in soundcheck, back off a tad, and here's the clever bit - we stay at that volume for the rest of the gig! I admit, playing quietly sucks, but we are proof that it can be done. No resetting the limiter and looking stupid. I know plenty of so called 'pros' who just can't play quietly when neccessary. They drive me nuts. It isn't hard, and the band can actually swing at lower volume levels too, and less feedback issues to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1403719607' post='2485639'] The limiter is usually hooked up to the mains circuit in that room, so that it cuts the power once you've gone into the red. [/quote] why all the expense of that installation when all they actually need do is put the breaker circuit in front of just the isolated guitar rig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1403738608' post='2485910'] Not good for digital desks. [/quote] Our keyboard player has taken to using an UPS for his keyboard - if the power does trip for any reason the keyboard stays up and doesn't reboot (which takes a couple of minutes). Might be worth thinking about this for digital desks too - we have an analog desk so it never occurred to me to try it. We run as much through the PA as possible (ie everything except the drums). If you have an electronic kit, better still. It might be quiet but at least it's controllable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Pete, yes I have a UPS with a dead battery at the moment! I am concerned with half sine vs full sine wave and whether it will be capable of keeping the p.a up for 30 seconds .Probably need a bigger one. We do have an E kit now,so we can manage levels a lot more and backline is on the way out with the introduction of IEMs across the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeward2004 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Ive done a few wedding gigs where limiters are in place, and trust me, its not something I would wish on anyone. They are so variable and can either be set at a reasonable level or can be really unforgiving. One occasion that springs to mind - we where booked to play at a wedding, in an old converted barn in the middle of nowhere. Quite beuatiful and an ideal setting for such an event. We set up, our sound man rigs up our PA (5k rig for medium sized venue), and we start to soundcheck - and BOOM, the power goes out! That particular limiter was so unforgiving that we had to ask the audience not to clap or cheer after songs, as it killed the power and we where scared of blowing up a very expensive stage full of kit! Oh, and we where told (in the contract) that this particular limiter was set at 98dB, im damn sure it was lower than that but try to avoid it if possible. And get yourself a load of surge protectors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I once tripped one of these with just an acoustic guitar and my voice. No PA. I am still undeservedly proud of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) [quote name='ratman' timestamp='1403769264' post='2485997'] As much as I hate limiters, I have to deal with them quite regularly. My band loves to play at a decent volume, but when faced with one of these we find the limit of the limiter in soundcheck, back off a tad, and here's the clever bit - we stay at that volume for the rest of the gig! I admit, playing quietly sucks, but we are proof that it can be done. No resetting the limiter and looking stupid. I know plenty of so called 'pros' who just can't play quietly when neccessary. They drive me nuts. It isn't hard, and the band can actually swing at lower volume levels too, and less feedback issues to boot. [/quote] I don't like an overly loud band so I agree but like others I've encountered them where you couldn't even have an acoustic jam and just use a pa for vocals, the quietest function band wouldn't be able to avoid tripping in those venues. Our drummer has an electric Kit and they are king really for sound limiter gigs, set the snare volume and tone to stay in the amber and match the band to that. Edited June 26, 2014 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 It seems to me some of these limiters are positioned pretty badly. I wonder who calibrates it, and how far it is placed from the stage etc. 98db at the back of a big room would be OK in that you could hold a conversation above it. 98 db right next to the band would be ridiculous. The response of the room should be considered too. There might be some weird acoustics going on where one corner is more responsive to snare drums for example. If the mic is put there it'd trip very easily, despite it having no relation to the actual RMS level outside the building, or wherever the complaints come from. Are there some regulations about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 1st thing, I'd give the gig back as it is no fun for anyone, IME. The band can't get going and the audience don't either so potential for staining the whole day which is not something I'd want to be responsible for. 2, not good for amps or keys either so why risk that equipment? If you must must must do it, then spec what gear you can use... but I can't get beyond asking myself why am I doing this..?? I'd be very pissed off that someone had booked me for this...as if I'd known I'd have vetoed it, certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 One of these had me convinced my wireless, or my bass, or my amp was at fault, as the rest of the band carried on playing. Then I worked out what it was and the guitarist pointed me to an extension lead that everyone else had plugged into that he'd forgotten to tell me to use when I arrived. I should point out that said extension lead was officially sanctioned, it was the club ents secretary who provided it. Did get me quite paranoid though, swapped from wireless to a lead, from main bass to backup bass, and then was trying to work out what might be wrong with the amp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 We played with one that was on the wall behind us so we couldn't see it when playing, we played as quietly as possible had absolutely no atmosphere throughout the set and the stupid thing was we only tripped it out once and that was during the quietest song we played .....oh yeah just to top it off the reset button was in another room entirely. We have vowed we will not play another venue with a limiter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquipment Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 That would frustrate for sure! Fortunately I've never had to deal with one though if I did, I'd probably start packing my things up and walk off to the bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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