EV Force speakers, anyone tried them?

[skidder652003]

Hi folks
seen a complete PA with 2 x 15 passive tops and 2 x 18 passive subs with 1.5K poweramp, mixer and multicore for £cheap quick sale. Its EV force stuff, has anyone any experience of this?
thanks

[JTUK]

I guess not..
so I looked up a few reviews....if you haven't already done so
[url="http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/electro-voice-force-i-e-15-speaker-cabinet"]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/electro-voice-force-i-e-15-speaker-cabinet[/url]


A few guesses and thoughts.
Old skool tech which has been usurped by modern DSP actives.
QSC are leading the way in the middle league ..ie, good local band gear but not at the class required
for really discerning P.A's. This ground starts with Nexo, D&B tech etc etc and will the the default tech spec on
pro bands riders.

As for the EV force... ? lots of cabs so you will be a sound but is the bottom end tight or mushy..?
I'd be looking for the high end vocal ability and I suspect this is why it may fail...
Having said that, plenty of people prefer the old QSC HPR sound over the K series in terms of sheer sound quality so maybe
these older EV cabs will do that as well.........?
The most recent EV's I've used have been SX300's which were pokey but harsh at HF.. in that you couldn't stand in front of them without getting blown out.
So, they are likely to be decent for the day, hardworking but big and inefficient..
I think you have to go hear them... and see if you want to carry them for what they will give you.

[JTUK]

FWIW...we have tried Nexo and Yamaha DXR/DSR and the Nexo is REALLY a step up... but we couldn't carry the kit
for most of our gigs and the 10's, which are brilliant, wouldn't be enough on their own, we felt.
We also wanted a smallish compact sub or 2..

The DXR12 tops are great.... so far...and rival QSC K, in my limted experience..so that is what we went for.
The subs are coming this week.........

[crez5150]

The Force series is as JTUK says, old tech.....

Depending on your budget there is a lot of choice. If you are keen on EV then the new ETX is something a bit special to those mentioned

[Phil Starr]

Spent an interesting hour in PMT in Bristol this Sun trying out PA speakers. Obviously this was at a volume which would have been well below gig levels. Yamaha DSR v's Electrovoice v's RCF. I was completely underwhelmed by the Yamahas, really disappointed because I have used the old Club series for years and they've been reliable and given us a good sound despite their faults. The sound was really compressed and boxy with a lack of midrange detail. Completely failed to separate voices in the harmonies. A flatter response than my current yammies but so lacking in detail. Quite liked the EV's but they have a real American voicing, heavy bass thump and a shimmering presence peak on cymbals. Bit more detail in the vocals than the Yamahas though. Plugging in the RCFs was like opening a window though, so much better on the vocals, really distinct differences in the voices and the third voice coming through on one song you wouldn't even notice on the other speakers.

DSP and active speakers are clearly the way to go. In a gig environment and without a sound engineer the speaker management alone is going to improve most bands sound and make the speakers bullet proof long term. I'm not convinced all the manufacturers are there yet though and clearly the DSP can't compensate for the quality of the drivers used. I'm going to put off going active for a while yet.

[skidder652003]

well I took the plunge so I'll let you know how I got on! They were seriously cheap!

[crez5150]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1405358312' post='2501198']Quite liked the EV's but they have a real American voicing, heavy bass thump and a shimmering presence peak on cymbals.
[/quote]

Sounds like you had the wrong DSP settings. How did you set it up? Did you use any room eq settings? Which models were you using?

[JTUK]

I used Yamaha tops this week and I think they came right over the top of the band very well.
None of this vox buried stuff you get a LOT...and I am afraid the band wasn't quiet, so that augurs well, I think.
I didn't feel they were inferior in this context to QSC KW's which I have always thought were the benchmark
at this type of pricepoint...
I liked the settings on the back plate in that you can roll off at 100hz, 120 or 'full range' and I like you could set
them to FOH or monitor bias....The gain/volume was set to half way and the peak/limiters switches were all useful.
I liked the general sound of them for vox...but maybe straight out of the box I would have wanted a bit more presense
but that may come when we get more time on them.
I think the fundementals are there and the price is good.
Not sure whether the HF config will convince over time and whether a 1" or so compression driver is enough...but none too shabby so far.
I also like the 'insurance' of DSP.. but for small places, I see no need for gtr or keys bleeds...as this are varibles in the mix
that an unattended sound doesn't need...IMO.

So, bang for buck... I think these are as good a voice sound as I've heard so far. The only thing that walks away from these by an
obvious distance that we have tried recently is Nexo, but we are talking about an engr'd sound and a LOT more money.
They wil more than do small gigs and we will hire in for bigger gigs.

FWIW, I tried the Yamaha's against QSC, RCF, JBL and EV ( forget which model ) and could have gone with any of them from that demo point in the shops but out in the real world and in context, am happy with the choice so far.

[mike257]

I used a Force i series rig for a couple of years on regular function gigs. Pair of 2x15 tops, pair of 1x18 subs (we actually had four, but [i]really[/i] couldn't be bothered carting the extra two around with us. Powered it all with two Cerwin Vega CV-2800 amps throwing a total of 3.6k into the cabs. Rarely tickled the higher reaches of its power capability and it did us well for anything from small rooms with just vocals, keys and kick miced to larger functions where we had the whole band running through it. There's better sounding/smaller/lighter kit out there but if you've got it suitably cheaply then you've got a decent gigging setup there. Moved over to using a HK Actor DX and the difference in punch and clarity is apparent, but so is the difference in your bank balance after you've bought it - I think we spent £1500ish and got the two EV tops, the four subs, amps, crossover, rack, misc bits for rack patch panels etc, cables and an old Yamaha 01V, as well as a few other misc bits. Was pretty happy with it for the money spent.

As the other posters have said, there's plenty newer tech and better kit around but it comes at a cost - my band mates at the time were totally non-techy and baulked at the idea of the £1.5k budget I managed to get out of them for the EV setup. It can be a hard sell if your band aren't "into" PA gear and realise the difference it makes but if you're earning decent wedge from the band then it's a worthwhile investment.

[skidder652003]

well i'll be straight here and say i paid £500 for 2 x 15" tops and 2 x 18" subs, a kam 1500W poweramp, a studiomaster diamond 12-2 desk, an Atlto L-2 desk, a 25M 20 channel multicore on a drum and all the speakon and XLR cables needed. I don't need the desks or multicore so Im planning to flog them on ebay, so I think I did ok price wise, they have to be better than the old peavey tops and subs we currently have! Next thing mics...SM58 betas anyone?...

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1405411909' post='2501601']
Sounds like you had the wrong DSP settings. How did you set it up? Did you use any room eq settings? Which models were you using?
[/quote]

ETX 12's set on the live setting, which is indicated as flat in the manual. Don't get me wrong, Id agree with JTUK that any of these would do you a good job and you could set them up to give a great sound. If I was running a Disco I'd go for the EV's but the RCF's which are the only non-DSP speakers I tried that day were the best on offer in terms of low colouration. I'm not knocking DSP which will only improve until it can outdo any human engineer but simply reporting what I heard. Good quality drive units and careful design still seem to be the critical factor.

[6v6]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1405451859' post='2502062']
Next thing mics...SM58 betas anyone?...
[/quote]

The beta58's are nice but expensive - I've had good results with EV ND767a's which are half the price, or thereabouts.

[skidder652003]

had 2 767a's, both died, might try the AKG D5's.
saying that the 767a's are great mics and would go with the EV PA!

Edited July 16, 2014 by skidder652003

[mike257]

I've just picked up a D5 after hearing a lot of positive talk about their performance. Haven't used it on any gigs yet but if it does well i'll be grabbing a few more. Available pretty cheaply used so worth a punt. Sounds like you got a good deal on all that kit. When my old band bought the EV rig we paid £1200 for a pair of 2x15 tops, four 1x18 subs, two Cerwin Vega CV-2800 amps (900w per channel), crossover, patch panel, rack case, tons of speakon and covers for all the speakers too. I thought that was alright but yours seems a steal in comparison!

[skidder652003]

Well we've gigged the EV's a few times now and they are a definite improvement over the peavey stuff, clearer, louder, less prone to feedback at higher volumes. They're also lighter as the subs are passive as opposed to the active peavey subs we used before. You can tell they were EV's entry level gear due to the quality of the workmanship being a bit so so but still a step up for us.

[JTUK]

I think DSP is a boon if you just throw the cabs up and self engr...
but there is no substitue for an engr'd rig but that comes at some cost...
financially and simply more faff and load.
We went for a reasonably priced option that will perform well and have
a bit of seperation with the subs... which should top our older default version
of quality tops only.
I think you have to gauge the level of upgrade with all the associated costs
against the hassle of a pub gig.
If you are doing dates...and getting paid for it...that justifies a 5-6pm load-in and sound check
then you'll carry an engr and be set up for it..otherwise, you are looking at getting there by
7:30, using default settings and you're off.
Having used a few quality digital desks recently...... I'd be quite interested in a smaller one.
Anyone got a recomendation... it would need to store preset mixes etc ...or maybe be able to have them 'flown' in.

[crez5150]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1407398392' post='2520039']

Having used a few quality digital desks recently...... I'd be quite interested in a smaller one.
Anyone got a recomendation... it would need to store preset mixes etc ...or maybe be able to have them 'flown' in.
[/quote]

Lots to choose from.... We looked at the new M32 (midas equivalent of the X32) but ended up going for the Allen and Heath QU24 as the pre-amps were nicer sounding and felt the build was slightly better. You can store all your settings on a USB stick so if you do hire in and engineer you can just load them in. Also can record separate WAV files from the desk to USB which is a nice feature

[JTUK]

I like the idea of doing a stage check from a phone app...........

Will have a look at the desks... altho they aren't really on the horizon as yet.

[crez5150]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1407404829' post='2520107']
I like the idea of doing a stage check from a phone app...........

Will have a look at the desks... altho they aren't really on the horizon as yet.
[/quote]

I tried the app on the iPad and it worked quite well. Though I sees it being fairly limited

[mike257]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1407404829' post='2520107']
I like the idea of doing a stage check from a phone app...........

Will have a look at the desks... altho they aren't really on the horizon as yet.
[/quote]

I've used both the official iOS and the third party Android app for the Behringer X32 and it's brilliant - solves all kinds of problems, you can ring out wedges with your graphic EQ in your hand on stage, escape from terrible mix positions and hear what the audience is hearing, or if you're mixing your own sound from stage on functions etc you can get out into the room and tweak during soundcheck. The developer of the Android app for X32 has beaten Behringer to the punch with RTA support on mobiles/tablets too, which makes it even more useful.