Is 500w D class too much?

[Bobthedog]

Having seen the thread about not bothering with a practice amp at home, I am having severe GAS in the form of the Orange Terror Bass 500c (other than the price which is daft). The issue I have is that until my spare garage is converted into a practice room, I have to practice in a 10 x 10' room (my office) above the TV room and cannot keep two amps for space reasons.

Can a powerful amp play well quietly and, perhaps a stupid question, would any damage come to the valves through not having the thing turned up?

I cannot find a similar thread through a brief search.

[chrismuzz]

I've used a 500w class d amp for home practice loads of times and its been great! You may have to change the settings for it to sound the same but other than that go for it

[Tdw]

I cant think of any reason why playing quietly through a powerful amp could damage it, valves or not and it should sound fine at low volumes.

[Bobthedog]

Many thanks guys. Just have to put the money together now!

[BanditSid]

I run a GK MB800 and it sounds great at low level as well as feeding headphones, but the small amps do have one problem for quiet use - which is the cooling fans, when mine kick in they are quite noisy and they do tend to stay on pretty much permanently......not a problem at gigs but audible at home.

[Old_Ben]

Depending on what your set up is, it also has a DI output on the side of the amp which you could feed into a mixer / interface and play at quieter volumes through headphones or a monitor set up, (this could help with the cooling fan background noise if it annoys you!) The only thing I'm not sure on is if the amp requires to be connected to a speaker anyway to help deal with the power load, some amps do, others don't.

EDIT:
This little box is pretty handy for just that use:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-MA400-Monitor-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B000KUCQXY

Edited July 21, 2014 by Old_Ben

[Jonesy64]

I've just traded my TB500 for a PF-350.

The TB is a cracking head but I fancied another Ampeg as back up to my SVT3Pro.

I have discovered the beauty of the PF-350 is that besides being a good head in its own right it also has aux-in and headphone out it and doesn't need to be hooked up to a cab (I am guessing most lightweight class D's have these features?) Just play your laptop/ipad/iPod or whatever into it and stick your headphones on. You've then got music and your bass mixed together. Or of course, just play your bass. It is small enough and light enough to pretty much practice anywhere with it providing you have a power source and your headphones on. Having said all of that I am getting a 112 for it as I don't want sweaty ears all the time!

Back to the TB500.....yes, it'll sound alright at low volume but you won't get it breaking up if that's the tone you are after.
I always had this problem with my all valve guitar amps...at home you could never turn up the gain enough to get the tubes cooking. If you are set on a TB500 (bargains in the used section by the way) and need the dirt put an overdrive pedal in front of it for home use.

I would def look at the higher output Ampeg PF's and GK MB's, Genz etc with their additional features before settling on a TB.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Jonesy64

[Muzz]

I occasionally use a 900w, three-valve amp head with just headphones...

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='Old_Ben' timestamp='1405927401' post='2506461']
This little box is pretty handy for just that use:
[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-MA400-Monitor-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B000KUCQXY"]http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B000KUCQXY[/url]
[/quote]
[quote name='Jonesy64' timestamp='1405936188' post='2506588']
Back to the TB500.....yes, it'll sound alright at low volume but you won't get it breaking up if that's the tone you are after.
I always had this problem with my all valve guitar amps...at home you could never turn up the gain enough to get the tubes cooking. If you are set on a TB500 (bargains in the used section by the way) and need the dirt put an overdrive pedal in front of it for home use.

I would def look at the higher output Ampeg PF's and GK MB's, Genz etc with their additional features before settling on a TB.
[/quote]

Guys, some useful stuff there, thank you. Re the TB500, I have heard it a couple of times, but yet to use one myself. The GAS says get it, the head says GK / Genz etc.

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='BanditSid' timestamp='1405926434' post='2506455']
I run a GK MB800 and it sounds great at low level as well as feeding headphones, but the small amps do have one problem for quiet use - which is the cooling fans, when mine kick in they are quite noisy and they do tend to stay on pretty much permanently......not a problem at gigs but audible at home.
[/quote]
[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1405938213' post='2506628']
I occasionally use a 900w, three-valve amp head with just headphones...
[/quote]
Bandit, Good point re the fan noise, I had not thought of that.

Muzz, wow!

[stoo]

[quote name='Jonesy64' timestamp='1405936188' post='2506588']
Back to the TB500.....yes, it'll sound alright at low volume but you won't get it breaking up if that's the tone you are after.
I always had this problem with my all valve guitar amps...at home you could never turn up the gain enough to get the tubes cooking. If you are set on a TB500 (bargains in the used section by the way) and need the dirt put an overdrive pedal in front of it for home use.
[/quote]

This doesn't really apply to an amp with a valve pre-amp and a solid state power amp though, does it? If you're running the power amp hard enough to overdrive it then the result is unlikely to sound particularly tubey, I'd think. If you're working the pre-amp hard and taming it with the master volume on the power amp, should give a similar effect whether quiet or loud.....no?

[Muzz]

No real magic: the Streamliner I have is 900w into 4 ohms with a 3-valve preamp stage, but has a Headphones out, and doesn't need speakers attached - it also has an Aux in for practice/playing along - win...

[dannybuoy]

The Terror Bass only had a valve pre, so no problem turning up the gain and keeping the master down if you want dirt at low volume levels.

The fan on it is noisy though, so I replaced mine with a silent computer fan.

[sblueplanet]

I had an Ampeg micro amp but found the fan too noisy at home. I now have a super silent Eden wtx264 which can also be used without a cab and just headphones Very small and portable to boot and loud enough bandwise with a 4ohm cab.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1405894333' post='2506326']
Can a powerful amp play well quietly and, perhaps a stupid question, would any damage come to the valves through not having the thing turned up?
[/quote]
yes. that's what the volume control is for.
and no, you're not going to damage it.

[Jonesy64]

I don't think anyone has said anything about trying to get a tube tone with a driven SS power amp stage?

Getting dirt at low volumes whether on all valves or hybrids is not best achieved by cranking the gain and feeding in a bit of master while keeping it quiet enough for bedroom levels.

In the case of the TB it can sound like mush and certainly on valve amps they can sound thin and buzzy until you really get to a point where the master is adding depth and 'volume' in a space context.

Best way to get dirt at bedroom levels is keep it clean and add an O/D pedal.

As ever though, people have their own opinions.

EDIT: only my opinion again but to be hearing cooling fans we must be talking about really lllllooowwwww volumes. Aside from when the amps are powering up I don't notice fan noise at all. That's the same for my old TB, the SVT3Pro and PF350.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Jonesy64

[bassmachine2112]

I use my tb 500 and a sp212 cab in the house turned down mind.
It will never sound the same as a cranked amp but great for practicing.
.Stick some foam carpet underlay underneath the cab or a block of polystyrene and it will cut down the vibration/low end in the building,wooden floors act like great big acoustic guitar bodies
The answer to OP is get the head and yes it is no problem to use this turned down to sensible volumes ,at least walls will still be standing and nothing will have fallen off a shelf upstairs or in another room or worse-the next door neighbours.
Happened to me-oops

[Bobthedog]

Well consensus seems to be go for it. The foam type bass is a great idea as my office is bare floor boards. It may also explain some of the sound quality issues at the moment.

[stingrayPete1977]

The Genz shuttle 300 Watt version hasn't got a fan finding one for sale might not be so easy though....

[Salt on your Bass?]

I always found home levels with the terror challenging. The volume slope on them is pretty sharp so always found myself in a 'shower' scenario where I was nudging volume and gain at really incremental levels. Also no headphone socket.

There's better amps for home practice in my opinion, albeit I like the Amp for gigs.....once the di is rectified.

[deepbass5]

I think sometimes 500 watts are too much and we would all be encouraged to set our gain signal paths more sensibly if we used 300 watt amps. with both my Mark bass and my GK mb500 I set the input gain between 10<12 o'clock the main out on the Markbass is never much over 1/4 way up say 9 o'clock where the GK head would be at 12 o'clock. for the same output. The GK fan is noisy too much for a studio recording session, where the Markbass rarely comes in and can't be heard so worth shopping around. I would be interested what Genz and TC owners feel.
I also have an issue that to get all the best features from a company you need say their 800 or 900 watt model, most of us would be willing to pay the same for the one that suits our music and band situation. not chasing big watts in order to get useful features.

[stingrayPete1977]

My shuttle max 9.2 isn't suitable for home use, the shuttle 6.0 would be and it has a head phone socket, the fan is quieter than most class D heads. The shuttle 3.0 is perfect as it has no fan, can be pushed further without annoying the neighbours yet will power a good 4x10 or 2x12 at a full on gig.

[Qlank]

My GB Shuttle 9.2 sounds great at low volume, mainly with the SUB4, but also with my Jazz. Quiet fan and headphone out.

[stoo]

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1405969094' post='2507106']
I think sometimes 500 watts are too much and we would all be encouraged to set our gain signal paths more sensibly if we used 300 watt amps. with both my Mark bass and my GK mb500 I set the input gain between 10<12 o'clock the main out on the Markbass is never much over 1/4 way up say 9 o'clock where the GK head would be at 12 o'clock. for the same output. The GK fan is noisy too much for a studio recording session, where the Markbass rarely comes in and can't be heard so worth shopping around. I would be interested what Genz and TC owners feel.
I also have an issue that to get all the best features from a company you need say their 800 or 900 watt model, most of us would be willing to pay the same for the one that suits our music and band situation. not chasing big watts in order to get useful features.
[/quote]

The fan on the mb500 shouldn't come on in normal operation - only in exceptionally hot circumstances. Might be something up with the temperature sensor?

Some more info from Bob Gallien in this thread on talkbass http://www.talkbass.com/threads/gk-mb500-fan-when-does-it-come-on.867209/

[deepbass5]

My mb500 fusion fan will come on at some point on every occasion its used I would think this normal ? this is the valve model so generating more heat than the solid state unit