Marvin Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) ... and tuning again when taking the capo back off! I've never seen anyone do this before and it's creating huge gaps between the songs it effects. I'm personally of the opinion that gaps between songs should be at a minimum in all respects. Tuning should almost go unnoticed by an audience, they want to hear music. ? Edited July 20, 2014 by Marvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 After 30 years of gigging..... I still don't understand why we have to tolerate having a Guitard in the band!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Into each life some rain must fall. [size=4]Our guitarist has two guitars tuned differently, so that minimises gaps between songs.[/size] But it is a pain for him to haul two guitars. It doesn't bother me though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 The attitude of this particular person is 'I'll play when I'm in tune however long that takes'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Wazoo Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Well the fact is, the average gigging band does not have roadies that can hand you a pre-tuned capo'ed guitar in between songs! If one must use a capo, then unfortunately the characteristics of that silly device, once clamped on the fingerboard of very thin strings, is that it affects the tuning. Not so much on guitars with a fixed bridge, but it causes all kind of tuning problems to floating bridges, tremolo's and the likes. Best avoided if you don't want to bore the pants of the audience. Edited July 21, 2014 by Grand Wazoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1405895848' post='2506343'] I've never seen anyone do this before and it's creating huge gaps between the songs it effects. [/quote] Nearly all the problems with capos come from strings being pulled excessively sharp. If he's the sort of chap who'll take advice, here are some tips: * Buy a capo that matches the fretboard radius. * Avoid spring-loaded capos like the Kyser Quick Change or the old elasticated jobs. The further up the neck one clamps this sort of capo the more it throws the tuning out. Use something like a Shubb where the clamping pressure can be 'continually' adjusted to the minimum necessary for the strings to ring clean. * Butt the capo bar right up to the fret. Any further away or equidistant between frets requires more pressure from the capo which pulls the strings sharp * Immediately after putting the capo on, give each of the strings a quick tug on the sounding side [i]then[/i] check the tuning. This nearly always helps iron out most of the unwanted sharps and means less time spent retuning * Keep the frets clean and well polished. If they're all grungy and dull, any bent notes (or even pull-offs) will leave the string out of alignment and sharp. * The compromise inherent in fretted necks means that even the best set up guitar with the best capo for the job will always be marginally out. Sometimes this 'out-ness' can sound quite nice. As long as the guitar sounds 'in' to the ear, so what if the electronic tuner says a string is 5 cents out? [color=#ffffff].[/color] Edited July 21, 2014 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I was never aware using a capo throws the tuning of a guitar out! I've not noticed my guitar go out of tune when I've taken it off when I have a play at home. Our guitarists in my band simply cant be bothered to play songs in different tunings or using capo or doing anything that will cause breaks inbetween songs. When they need to, they tune up inbetween songs where me and the drummer can jam the intro of a song (My Hero - Foo Fighters for example) and we position these 'tuning periods' every 5/6 songs they can then come in whenever they are ready - It also builds up some tension in the song as well. So it might be worth giving that a go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1405911144' post='2506412'] Nearly all the problems with capos come from strings being pulled excessively sharp. If he's the sort of chap who'll take advice, here are some tips: * Avoid spring-loaded capos like the Kyser Quick Change or the old elasticated jobs. The further up the neck one clamps this sort of capo the more it throws the tuning out. Use something like a Shubb where the clamping pressure can be 'continually' adjusted to the minimum necessary for the strings to ring clean. [/quote] In my experience this is the key - over tighteneing a capo (on guitar and bass) will throw the tuning right out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Our guitarist uses a capo on 2 songs and tunes up afterwards but I dont see it as a problem, but then again he does do it rather quick. I am the front man to our band so use this time to have some banter with the audience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Just to confirm what's already been said, using a capo puts a guitar out of tune. There are things you can do to minimise the problem but you can't magic it away. How you resolve it in a performance situation is between you and the rest of the band (not just the guitarist - you can't really blame him for wanting his instrument in tune ). One way is to organise your set so that, for example, he doesn't need a capo for the first 4 or 5 songs, and then put the 'capo' songs together if you can: or choose some different songs . In my gigging days we used to try to run the first few songs straight off the bat. That way you give yourself a bit more leeway with the audience if you need a retune (some guitars go out of tune just with use!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Our old guitarist used to bring four guitars for various tunings and sounds, the new one brings a variax instead 12 string acoustic to Gibson Les Paul via fretless p bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The singer/guitarist in one of my bands always seems to be struggling with this. She's experimented with different types of capo and had the guitar well set up but it is still an issue. I think it might be exacerbated by her using a 24" Squier Jagmaster with light gauge strings, as it's not a problem when we do acoustic sets. But she likes that guitar and doesn't want to change anything, so we just put up with it as best we can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1405895848' post='2506343'] ... and tuning again when taking the capo back off! I've never seen anyone do this before and it's creating huge gaps between the songs it effects. I'm personally of the opinion that gaps between songs should be at a minimum in all respects. Tuning should almost go unnoticed by an audience, they want to hear music. ? [/quote] You are right about the tuning and about gaps between songs, but using a capo can indeed put a guitar out of tune. There are a few things you can do to help mitigate it but sometimes it can't be helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1405895848' post='2506343'] ... and tuning again when taking the capo back off! I've never seen anyone do this before and it's creating huge gaps between the songs it effects. I'm personally of the opinion that gaps between songs should be at a minimum in all respects. Tuning should almost go unnoticed by an audience, they want to hear music. ? [/quote] Get a mate to video a gig, then sit the whole band down to watch it together and discuss what they could do to improve the show for the audience - the guitarist might then understand how bad these big gaps make the band look, and that he is being a massive twat by insisting on doing things the way he is doing them atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1405935626' post='2506575'] Get a mate to video a gig, then sit the whole band down to watch it together and discuss what they could do to improve the show for the audience - the guitarist might then understand how bad these big gaps make the band look, and that he is being a massive twat by insisting on doing things the way he is doing them atm. [/quote] This is actually a really good idea.... He will be embarrassed when he realises you are all waiting around for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1405935728' post='2506579'] He will be embarrassed when he realises you are all waiting around for him. [/quote] I bet he won't, many guitarists seem to think that is why they were put on the planet, so the rest of the world can wait for them to dazzle us See Marv's post #4. Is he ridiculously attached to a particular single guitar and soesn't carry a backup? Could a second guitar for the capo stuff be just set up in advance and pick it up when needed or is he using the capo on lots of songs and in different positions? Tbh I've seen seasoned pros wrestle with the damn things before now so it's not necessarily just this particular player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1405935626' post='2506575'] Get a mate to video a gig, then sit the whole band down to watch it together and discuss what they could do to improve the show for the audience - the guitarist might then understand how bad these big gaps make the band look, and that he is being a massive twat by insisting on doing things the way he is doing them atm. [/quote] Wanting to be in tune is being a massive twat now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 If the guitarist is going to need to tune up frequently, he should work on being able to do this in no more than a few seconds. Every guitarist I work with can do this very very quickly (and silently), especially as it's small adjustment tuning. 'Huge gaps' make him (and the rest of you, by extension) look like an amateur with bad gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The guitar has to be in tune, so learn in to fill the gaps. It's a band responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Make him buy a Spider Capo. Tunings can be changed very quickly, even during a song. [url="http://www.spidercapo.com/"]http://www.spidercapo.com/[/url] Edited July 21, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1405933439' post='2506542'] Just to confirm what's already been said, using a capo puts a guitar out of tune. There are things you can do to minimise the problem but you can't magic it away. How you resolve it in a performance situation is between you and the rest of the band (not just the guitarist - you can't really blame him for wanting his instrument in tune ). One way is to organise your set so that, for example, he doesn't need a capo for the first 4 or 5 songs, and then put the 'capo' songs together if you can: or choose some different songs . In my gigging days we used to try to run the first few songs straight off the bat. That way you give yourself a bit more leeway with the audience if you need a retune (some guitars go out of tune just with use!) [/quote] Totally agree - sometimes a song will call for a capo - no getting around it using barre chords or different inversions, and there will be tuning issues. If you have these songs in the set use them as Leftybassman suggests allowing for a short natural break in between numbers at appropriate times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 A G7 capo is expensive on the face of it, but worth every penny. It's the only one Ive ever come across that doesn't seem to affect the tuning of a guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Decent capo. I use a G7 for the odd guitar gig that I do, which is trouble free. On a side note related to multiple guitars, one of the bands that I play in does some songs tuned a semitone down, and the guitarist has two guitars - he leaves both in standard tuning in the first set so he has a backup if a string breaks, then tunes it down in the interval and we do all the down-tuned songs in the second set (which is, of course, when he breaks a string). Despite the fact that his capo isn't of the best, he can actually put it on and take it off without affecting the tuning of the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1405943535' post='2506718'] A G7 capo is expensive on the face of it, but worth every penny. It's the only one Ive ever come across that doesn't seem to affect the tuning of a guitar. [/quote] I've got a G7 and its really good, but I'd still want to check the tuning when using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1405940974' post='2506671'] Wanting to be in tune is being a massive twat now? [/quote] No but causing the whole band to look like clueless amateurs and killing the flow of the set by spending an inordinate amount of time retuning IMHO most definately is, mainly because you are pissing on the efforts of your bandmates to get the audiences attention and engage with them up to that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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