molan Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1406473040' post='2511726'] Well the Prodigy at 250W is louder than my 900W Genz class D heads. I'm glad I'm not facing a Strategy re-valve though. That's an easy £300! [/quote] There are some people out there using the same power amp section that's in the Genz 900 but only rating it at 500w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I doubt anyone plays venues big enough that require the headroom we all talk about. I'm just as guilty. My Orange tube amp sounds beautiful but the power tubes will just push and push to crazy volumes (not clean obviously). The power sections don't really tell the full story. Genz and Aguilar have great power managent but Genz push the section harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1406485925' post='2511865'] There are some people out there using the same power amp section that's in the Genz 900 but only rating it at 500w [/quote] you had alluded to this a while back but not mentioned names! I don't get this - surely power output is a given measurable thing - it's either 500w or it's not! You don't get this sort of thing as much in the PA amp world it seems (unless you're behringer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1406497659' post='2511989'] you had alluded to this a while back but not mentioned names! I don't get this - surely power output is a given measurable thing - it's either 500w or it's not! You don't get this sort of thing as much in the PA amp world it seems (unless you're behringer) [/quote] Well... as I understand it output power can be rated as peak watts or RMS and all that malarkey... I get the impression that most companies specifications are at best, er... [i]fluid[/i], and is based largely on how best to present equipment for marketing purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1406497659' post='2511989'] you had alluded to this a while back but not mentioned names! I don't get this - surely power output is a given measurable thing - it's either 500w or it's not! You don't get this sort of thing as much in the PA amp world it seems (unless you're behringer) [/quote] The person who discussed this with me is a very well respected tech designer from a quality amp manufacturer with a reputation (in the trade certainly) for being very straightforward & honest. His gear pretty much never overheats or breaks down mid-gig. My understanding was that Genz used the same power module but effectively squeezed every last drop out of it to get the 900w rating and this then only comes in short sharp spikes. Whereas the other manufacturer sets it up differently to be operating at more of its genuinely 'usable' power around the 500w mark. I am a complete technical ignoramus and I specifically asked him to try and explain the differences to me in a way I could understand and this seemed to make sense. Effectively what he was saying, if I understood him correctly, was that by setting the power module to run at it's most efficient setting it would deliver more or less the same perceived volume whilst avoiding nasty overheating issues and potentially 'popping' on a gig. It felt to me that what Genz were doing was a bit like overclocking a PC to make it run faster and I have some personal experience of PC's overheating when set up like this so it seemed to make sense. Of course this could just be one manufacturer 'dissing' another's products but certainly some of the early Genz 900w heads had quite a rep for over-heating and, to my ears, they all start sounding a bit harsh when really wound up loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) [quote name='molan' timestamp='1406498926' post='2512001'] My understanding was that Genz used the same power module but effectively squeezed every last drop out of it to get the 900w rating and this then only comes in short sharp spikes. Whereas the other manufacturer sets it up differently to be operating at more of its genuinely 'usable' power around the 500w mark. Of course this could just be one manufacturer 'dissing' another's products but certainly some of the early Genz 900w heads had quite a rep for over-heating and, to my ears, they all start sounding a bit harsh when really wound up loud [/quote] I think the part about Genz getting more out of a power section is true. It is also true of Gallien K. Their 800W micros apparently have the same power section as the Aguilar TH500. Unless I'm mistaken, the GK amp in question was tested and did indeed push out that much power. This all seems clear that with clever power management, and proper limiting, (and obviously years of experience in this area of work) then the power section is only a very small part of the story. It's also clear that more mid forward amps will always sound louder, just because of the way mids work. Less wattage wasted on deep bass that just damages speakers if you push it. I've not (fingers crossed) experienced or seen hardly any Genz problems with the power section, apart from when people get the voltage switch wrong. Edited July 28, 2014 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 As far as I'm aware, most of the current crop of class-D's use the same ICEPower module. Marketing nonsense does the rest. EBS seem to be acting more sensibly with the Reidmar, rating it at an honest 250w. I'm happy to be educated otherwise, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I really really want one of these... But nearly £2k Still saving, but secretly hoping another company, with slightly less greedy distributors will come up with a lower cost alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1406542604' post='2512199'] As far as I'm aware, most of the current crop of class-D's use the same ICEPower module. Marketing nonsense does the rest. EBS seem to be acting more sensibly with the Reidmar, rating it at an honest 250w. I'm happy to be educated otherwise, though. [/quote] There are a number of different ICE modules available, and some can be bridged too. Other manufacturers are now making their own, or licensing the technology. The Genz I had was definitely an ICE - but I was told it was an OEM model (which they also do), I'm not sure the Carvin I have now is an ICE because the boards are completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1406542604' post='2512199'] As far as I'm aware, most of the current crop of class-D's use the same ICEPower module. Marketing nonsense does the rest. EBS seem to be acting more sensibly with the Reidmar, rating it at an honest 250w. I'm happy to be educated otherwise, though. [/quote] the old series of Tecamp puma used a powersoft Digimod unit - nice unit it was too- not sure how much of that was the preamp or power amp though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Thanks for sharing, hope you enjoy the amp, in the right rig and right hands I'm sure that it will be monsterous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yes, I'd certainly like to hear it with a CN212... now, how can I do this... get the old whelk stall out Saturday... sell the current mrs discreet's jewellery, clothes, shoes and car... nope - won't be worth the gonad removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Another overwhelming victory for: real men, technology that doesn't lie, real tone and blood & guts. Look guys, Class A. Universally accepted as a high standard whatever it applies to. Class D? I would have been in the care of social services if I'd have come home and told my dad I'd embraced Class D. He didn't raise no sissies. 900W Class D?!?! How many of you have started conversations with band members that were "blown away" by your 900 watts? Honestly? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1406542604' post='2512199'] As far as I'm aware, most of the current crop of class-D's use the same ICEPower module. Marketing nonsense does the rest. EBS seem to be acting more sensibly with the Reidmar, rating it at an honest 250w. I'm happy to be educated otherwise, though. [/quote] I would have thought that that the same power section can handle different amounts of power according to how well its cooled? Certainly with many industrial "AC" drives (which are effectively class D) they have different ratings according to whether they are convection cooled or fan cooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 And today the missus saw the receipt!! It's going to be a cold and lonely couple of weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1406708265' post='2513864'] And today the missus saw the receipt!! It's going to be a cold and lonely couple of weeks [/quote] BIG mistake!! I hide mine in my bongo mags in the shed. She never goes in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1406708265' post='2513864'] And today the missus saw the receipt!! It's going to be a cold and lonely couple of weeks [/quote] Oh dear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Oops... That's why I have everything delivered to work and watch the post box like a hawk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Normally I understand the moans. But this time I sold my Hyperbass so I had plenty of funds for it. Women! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1406720247' post='2514028'] Normally I understand the moans. But this time I sold my Hyperbass so I had plenty of funds for it. Women! [/quote] I once made the mistake of airing the view that perhaps, on reflection, the one in one out rule, should apply to her handbag collection. I won't make that particular mistake ever again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 [quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1406754860' post='2514520'] I once made the mistake of airing the view that perhaps, on reflection, the one in one out rule, should apply to her handbag collection. I won't make that particular mistake ever again [/quote] I too have made the handbag mistake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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