PA Shopping question - which active monitor

[andydye]

we're currently borrowing a yamaha DXR10 which is pretty good but we need to buy our own to take out and about with us and this one lives in our practise space...

I'm wondering whether there's anything else out there that we should be considering that will do the same kind of job (but might be a tad cheaper)...it just has acoustic guitar and vocals through it for the drummer to hear and sing with, needs to be loud enough for a drum monitor but nothing bonkers!

This is what we're currently using:
[url="http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/proaudio/speakers/dxr/dxr10/?mode=model"]http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/proaudio/speakers/dxr/dxr10/?mode=model[/url]
the site reckons it's a 700w speaker that can handle 56hz-20khz

it does sound pretty good for what we're using it for, my preference would be for a 12" rather than 10" speaker for a bit more 'body' in the sound but...what's about folks? and what do you use?

ta

[Alec]

If it's really only acoustic & vox, then a quality 10" cab is ample - in fact ideal, really. Smaller, lighter, cheaper - and has the response where you need it.

I use RCF ART 700 series, which are superb. Surprisingly, the ART 710 (£400) is a tad cheaper than the DXR10 (£470) - light and very capable. 3.5kg lighter than the DXR10, which you may appreciate!

At the absolute bargain end, but still well regarded, is the Alto TS110A (£220). A little down on max SPL, but quite likely to be enough for the job - and *cheap*!

[andydye]

[quote name='Alec' timestamp='1406642821' post='2513339']
At the absolute bargain end, but still well regarded, is the Alto TS110A (£220). A little down on max SPL, but quite likely to be enough for the job - and *cheap*!
[/quote]

oo cheers matey!

have you used the alto stuff laid down as a wedge monitor or would it need to be upright?

I'd be tempted to try the ts112a as I like the leetle bit extra oomph you get with a slightly larger driver, bit warmer sounding too

[Alec]

[quote name='andydye' timestamp='1406643261' post='2513350']have you used the alto stuff laid down as a wedge monitor or would it need to be upright?[/quote]

Not used the Alto stuff, but know quite a few who have - they're regarded as the bargain of the century. Not necessarily as good as the higher end models - especially in output, but stupic value for the money.

Monitor angle mode looks fine. In fact better than on my ART 710s where it can get a little tight with the IEC & XLR connection.

[quote name='andydye' timestamp='1406643261' post='2513350']I'd be tempted to try the ts112a as I like the leetle bit extra oomph you get with a slightly larger driver, bit warmer sounding too[/quote]

Fair enough if it's for FOH, but for mons, it's far more about getting enough of it in your face!

Edited July 29, 2014 by Alec

[andydye]

[quote name='Alec' timestamp='1406645279' post='2513379']
Not used the Alto stuff, but know quite a few who have - they're regarded as the bargain of the century. Not necessarily as good as the higher end models - especially in output, but stupic value for the money.

Monitor angle mode looks fine. In fact better than on my ART 710s where it can get a little tight with the IEC & XLR connection.

Fair enough if it's for FOH, but for mons, it's far more about getting enough of it in your face!
[/quote]

quality - fair enough

mon angle - groovy

10" over 12" I get your point matey, might try the 10" option first...oo how cheap are they from Maplin!! £180!!! is that right?

[Alec]

[quote name='andydye' timestamp='1406645840' post='2513386']
10" over 12" I get your point matey, might try the 10" option first...oo how cheap are they from Maplin!! £180!!! is that right?
[/quote]
Looks like a bargain to me - just dive on in!

And, as for size, if I wanted to monitor kick through it, I'd want a really beefy 15" unit which, even then, would be a bit wimpy. But for monitoring vox & acoustic... My ART 710s will fill a pretty big space!

[andydye]

[quote name='Alec' timestamp='1406648469' post='2513421']
Looks like a bargain to me - just dive on in!

And, as for size, if I wanted to monitor kick through it, I'd want a really beefy 15" unit which, even then, would be a bit wimpy. But for monitoring vox & acoustic... My ART 710s will fill a pretty big space!
[/quote]

cheers buddy, info passed to the keeper of the pursey

Edited July 29, 2014 by andydye

[mrtcat]

10s are better for monitoring IMO as you want lots of middle to get the vocals to really cut through on stage. Most 10s are stronger in the mid range. We generally cut a lot of low end from monitors as it tends to muddy things on stage a little and you can crank the speakers a bit more then.

[andydye]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1406664086' post='2513585']
10s are better for monitoring IMO as you want lots of middle to get the vocals to really cut through on stage. Most 10s are stronger in the mid range. We generally cut a lot of low end from monitors as it tends to muddy things on stage a little and you can crank the speakers a bit more then.
[/quote]

good info bud

[Phil Starr]

I am another one to prefer 10's for monitors. The essential thing for the monitor is to give good mid frequencies especially for guitar and vocals, it is a rare 12 or15 which will do this. I recently tried running the Yamaha against the RCF, thanks to PMT in Bristol, the RCF are much better.

[andydye]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1406836347' post='2515239']
I am another one to prefer 10's for monitors. The essential thing for the monitor is to give good mid frequencies especially for guitar and vocals, it is a rare 12 or15 which will do this. I recently tried running the Yamaha against the RCF, thanks to PMT in Bristol, the RCF are much better.
[/quote]

oo interesting! Any opinions on the rcf longevity? Which rcf & yamaha models was it btw?

[Phil Starr]

They were the DXR10 and the ART410 recently discontinued but available here at a discount. BOth makes have excellent reputations for reliability. The drivers in the RCF's have a great reputation. I use passive club series Yamahas and have a soft spot for them but there was a real lack of detail from the DXRs, I was underwhelmed, they weren't awful, just a bit boxy and compressed with a lack of detail in the vocals. Particularly noticeable on a duet with two female voices I use for testing, the ARTs separated the voices, the DXRs turned them into a mush.

By the way my Yamaha floor monitors are 15s (bought second hand) another reason to go for 10's is they are too big for most of the venues we play and I have just moved to 10's for that reason. I've also bought some Behringer B205Ds which work surprisingly well for vocal monitors if you want to go really small

[crez5150]

I've been using these the past few weeks and they are stunning little floor monitors... maybe a bit outside your budget though

[url="http://www.dynacord.com/en/products/7/1/65/278_axm12a.html"]http://www.dynacord.com/en/products/7/1/65/278_axm12a.html[/url]

[andydye]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1406877103' post='2515455']
They were the DXR10 and the ART410 recently discontinued but available here at a discount. BOth makes have excellent reputations for reliability. The drivers in the RCF's have a great reputation. I use passive club series Yamahas and have a soft spot for them but there was a real lack of detail from the DXRs, I was underwhelmed, they weren't awful, just a bit boxy and compressed with a lack of detail in the vocals. Particularly noticeable on a duet with two female voices I use for testing, the ARTs separated the voices, the DXRs turned them into a mush.

By the way my Yamaha floor monitors are 15s (bought second hand) another reason to go for 10's is they are too big for most of the venues we play and I have just moved to 10's for that reason. I've also bought some Behringer B205Ds which work surprisingly well for vocal monitors if you want to go really small
[/quote]

hhmmm, shame the 410 is discontinued, they do the 310 which 'looks' similar on paper but is heavier, I can't imagine it's as good...? might have to stick with the yamaha...

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1406877564' post='2515461']
I've been using these the past few weeks and they are stunning little floor monitors... maybe a bit outside your budget though
[url="http://www.dynacord.com/en/products/7/1/65/278_axm12a.html"]http://www.dynacord....278_axm12a.html[/url]
[/quote]

those dynacord look super sweet but are indeed a bit more than we were hoping to pay

[JPJ]

We've got a couple of the Behringer 12" 300w powered monitors. Got them for under £200 each (can't remember exactly how much they were) and they do the job very well indeed.

[Phil Starr]

The art710 is cheaper than the Yamaha from Thomann. I'd choose that.

[mrtcat]

Buy Rcf gear with confidence. Their gear is built for gigging. I too was disappointed with the dxr10s. It's a shame that they don't make a dsr110 as the dsr112s are a whole different kettle of fish and I was really impressed with them.

[Kevin Dean]

I use 2 x Alto 12s & we have vocals ,electric drums & keyboards going through them , they seem to work fine . then again I haven't tried anything else .

Edited August 2, 2014 by Kevin Dean

[Alec]

RCF kit - just ace! A while ago I did get to compare an ART 310 with my ART 710. Performance wise, not a huge difference, other than a little more bottom end in the 710.

Never did try any of the ART 400 series, which were slightly lower power (and cheaper) than the 700 series. Looked like a good proposition, mind. Suspect they were discontinued when they brought out the D Line series.

Interesting to hear some contrasting views from what I'd previously heard on the Yamaha DXR line. Though I've no experience of them.

Yes to 10" monitors for small self-op PAs in compact venues. In decent sized venues, it's a different kettle of fish. Where I engineer regularly, it's very common to want kick & bass in wedges - for this, it's not really happening in sub 15" monitors.

In the end, of course, money matters - which is why the Altos could win out for you. The RCFs and other higher end speakers will beat them, but will have cost you a whole lot more.

[JTUK]

Be careful which ART's you get and what for.
I think some ART's are ideal for monitoring as they can be very pokey and directional...
which is exactly what you want for monitors, IMO... but FOH they are waaay too spikey and harsh
and just plain uncomfortable to listen to for long if they are blasting at you.
At first, you think this is a good thing as they cut thru glass, but they are also very
wearinfg and you just want to escape them...

[mrtcat]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1407144475' post='2517641']
Be careful which ART's you get and what for.
I think some ART's are ideal for monitoring as they can be very pokey and directional...
which is exactly what you want for monitors, IMO... but FOH they are waaay too spikey and harsh
and just plain uncomfortable to listen to for long if they are blasting at you.
At first, you think this is a good thing as they cut thru glass, but they are also very
wearinfg and you just want to escape them...
[/quote]
+1 for this. For foh I'd recommend the rcfs with the 2inch tweeters (322,325,422,425,722 etc etc) as they are way smoother. They are considerably more expensive but worth every penny.

[JTUK]

1" or 2" is the deal, IMO... but I would like to put our DXR12's against the old QSC KW12's in a proper test.
Since we will run the DXR12's with a sub, I think they will outperform the QSC's... but the one thing I need to get my head
around is the HF performance.
Atm, I am not hearing they are worth the difference, bearing in mind we can carry a sub as well for the money we would pay for the
QSC tops... and the only reason we went for KW12 was the bottom end being better than the K12.
Carrying a sub/subs negates the tops having to produce much bass... which is why we roll off around 100/120 on the tops.
In that sense and thinking, you could use 10's as tops... but you would suffer if there were gigs you didn't use subs on.

IME, you want clean clear hi's but to be not so harsh...
DSP is getting better and we haven't had to run the 12's beyond 12' o clock. I accept the pricepoint will likely tell when
really ramped up, but we aren't going to try and use these type of P.A's for 350 people type halls.

[Ghost_Bass]

I use a couple of ART312-MKII as PA tops in one of my bands and the sound is the best i've ever heard. We need a Sub upgrade though to keep up with the tops (currently running a couple of dB Technologies SUB15).

[davehux]

I use a Behringer F1220A http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0028GWJCG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Solid, well made, with rubber bumpers on all the corners . Loads of power (forget the 125W thing, it is seriously loud) Nice 3 way EQ. The Feedback filter actually works!!!

I know Behringer doesn't get much love on here, but mine gigs regularly and I've had no trouble at all from it.

Hard to beat in a 'bangs for your buck' contest

[LukeFRC]

odd off topic question..... say I went and bought a RCF HD12a.... what would stop that (and a preamp) working as a powered bass cab?