Thurbs Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hi guys. Doing a recording session with the drummer tomorrow on our new album. All the stuff is written and well-rehearsed so hopefully it shouldn't take too long. I have never mic'd up drums before so could do with some pointers. The mics I have available are: 2 x KAM KD15 4 x KAM KD10 2 x Samson C02 3 x Behringer XM1800S 7 x Stands And only 8 channels on the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40. Here is my efforts so far... [attachment=167928:WP_20140730_001.jpg] [attachment=167929:WP_20140730_002.jpg] Kick & floor tom with KD15 Snare & toms with KD10 Overheads with Samson C02 & Behringer XM1800S High-hat with Behringer XM1800S Any better suggestions on mic usage, position or anything? All advise welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1406729512' post='2514149']...All advise welcome.[/quote] Not bad for the n° and type of mics available. If you're going for close-micing, you'll want to keep 'bleed' to a minimum, usually. I think your attribution is as best as one could get with those mics, but I'd maybe sacrifice the stand for bass drum (tape the mic to a chair leg instead...), and use the boom for picking up separately toms 2 and 3. I'd put the tom and snare mics very close to the drum head rim, angled, if possible, to where the 'hit' will be. I'd equally remove the suspended 'ambience' mic and have it further away, to pick up the whole kit. Somewhere a couple of metres forward, head height, taped to a broom handle or similar..? I'd equally separate further the 2 overheads, but ensure that they're both at exactly the same height. There's no 'ideal' when using what one has to hand; compromise is the name of the game. You may like to dampen the drums (I see there's nothing on the heads presently...) to remove some of the ring..? A matter of taste, context and musicality; the 'standard' snare trick is a wallet placed opposite the strike. It may 'fatten up' the snare..? A small strip of gaffer tape will tame toms, too, but don't go overboard, or you'll end up with the 'cardboard box' sound. Sometimes that's what's required, though..! [size=4]Patience is key; moving the mics even a little often changes quite radically the 'take'. Good luck with it all. Will we get to hear the results..? [/size] Edited July 30, 2014 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Ben Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Another alternative to the bass drum could be to remove the whole of the front skin and place the mic inside near the beater of the bass drum... But the best thing is to record about a minute while playing the whole kit, listen to it back and see what's too loud, quiet, where there is too much bleed from another piece of the kit, and adjust it accordingly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 The trick to getting a great drum sound is a great sounding kit, played by a great player, in a great sounding room mic'ed up well. There are lots of videos on you tube on the subject that give good advice so I would look at a few of them. First tune the kit and make it sound the best you can in that room. A well recorded drum kit should sound good without an processing so try to get the sound right a source. When dealing with situations that are less than ideal like recording a drum kit in a living room my advice would be to experiment, record a number of short test recordings with the mic's at various positions and even move the kit to different places around the room. I would also use a room mic if possible, this could even be placed outside the room or pointing window to capture the reflections again you need to experiment. One of the problems with recording drums at home is the reflections from the low ceilings going in into the overheads, hanging a duvet above the o/h mic's may help, it might mean that the drummer has to play quieter. My priority would be to get the best sound I can from the overheads I could, the individual drums sound could be replaced or enhanced by samples later but id the o/s are bad you are stuck. why not try XY position for overheads? this eliminates any phase issue you may get using a space pair. lastly I would also use a room mic if possible, this could even be outside the room or pointing window to capture the reflections. There is nothing more satisfying then getting a great drum sound you have recorded yourself so good luck and let us know how you get on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='ironside1966' timestamp='1406747825' post='2514431'] The trick to getting a great drum sound is a great sounding kit, played by a great player, in a great sounding room mic'ed up well. [/quote] Nail on the head right there. I'd go for something like this as a starting point, then add more close mice if you feel they're needed. http://youtu.be/BdiPLpXASgo I've always said that miking each drum individually is like using a separate pickup for each guitar string. Bonkers. Don't fall into the trap of thinking the overheads are JUST for cymbals, and high pass filter them accordingly - they are there to capture a stereo image of the KIT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1406750099' post='2514460']... I've always said that miking each drum individually is like using a separate pickup for each guitar string. Bonkers...[/quote] Not disagreeing with this, but if they're close-miced, they can be added in (if necessary...) to the final mix. If they're not there, you can't. I agree that the 'core' sound is best taken from the overheads and ambients, which should be placed as best as possible. The close mics are complementary; one could (and often would...) do without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yup, close miking is a nice way to augment the core sound of well placed, well chosen O/H mikes, and with 8 channels the OP would be wise to capture them too. …just in case, you know….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) The drums need to be tuned properly by someone who knows what they're doing, then played properly by someone who knows what they're doing. This could even be the same person. In my experience the more mics you have on a kit the more time you will need to spend making that kit sound good. (Qualify that by saying 'in my experience' - someone who has a lot more experience will no doubt get a totally different result!) I use a decent kick mic inside the kick drum (through front hole - front skin ON) about an inch from the beater (damp kick internally to taste). The beater skin should be tuned just enough to take the wrinkles out. Then, a 90-degree crossed pair of dynamics in front of the kit about 18-24" away and at a height where the toms meet the top of the kick drum. That's it. Three tracks. Works every time and sounds cracking. No phase issues and no spending about three days sub-mixing the kit. Edited July 30, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Thanks so much for the advice all. Here is what we got done tonght with a really quick mix and no effects at all. https://soundcloud.com/richard-thurbin/how-i-feel-drums https://soundcloud.com/richard-thurbin/speed-camera-drums https://soundcloud.com/richard-thurbin/up-high-drums https://soundcloud.com/richard-thurbin/down-down-drums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 [quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1406843155' post='2515335']...Here is what we got done tonight...[/quote] Good evening, Richard... Result..! Well done. A quick mix, you say..? Not bad at all, then. How was the separation (bleed...) finally..? Will it allow individual treatment of the tracks..? The drumming's pretty tight; was that to a click, or to a 'guide' track (or maybe just running on alone..! [size=4] )..? What's the next step, then..? [/size][size=4]As with the bass, so with the drums (and, indeed, the rest...) It's all about the final mix; the instruments in isolation are not to be judged. One has to anticipate how it will all sound together. That's fairly easy when rehearsing, or for a 'live' sound check, as there will be a time for each alone, then adjust with the whole works. It's less easy if the recording is done in batches; all the drums, then all the basses etc. One has to imagine (or have the experience to think ahead...) and try to get, from the start, the sound that will fit with each track in finality. Not the simplest of exercises, I'll grant. One can do quite a lot with post-treatment, but the more that is already there from the beginning, the better.[/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size][size=4]A couple of suggestions, for now or for later..? Feel free to ignore, of course..! It can make a difference, depending on the style, to use a different 'weight' of stick (a touch heavier for the 'solid' numbers..?), or even change to rods or brushes..? Much neglected; they are not simply for 'jazzers' or Country drumming..! It's equally useful to vary the snare sound (tune up a notch, dry it out with a bit of tape, adjust the snare-bed tension and much more...) to have some distinctive feel to each composition. Some (richer..!) drummers may use a different snare for each take, although that's probably over the top, unless one can do the same 'live'..! Imagine the furore if we all switched drums between numbers..! [/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4]Enough, I hear you cry, and you're right. Good stuff; will we hear more as the session goes on..? [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 I couldn't resist it.... Now with a more concidered mix, gates, compressors, eq and limiters... https://soundcloud.com/richard-thurbin/down-down-drums [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1406845033' post='2515352']stuff[/quote] Thanks for the encouragement... We had issues with the kick drum (took the head off, stuck a pillow in it and placed the mic as this thread suggested), and the floor tom (which I think is still a bit sh*t). Dumped the dynamic overhead mic and took out the high hat to get this mix. Thanks for the tips on the snare, I shall suggest them to the drummer who is a really open guy fortunately. I will keep this thread updated with progress if people are interested.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Hi guys. Finally finished recording 3 of the 4 tracks. Herding cars is hard work... I can see the attraction of hitting it all in one go in a hired studio! Here they are so far: https://soundcloud.com/richard-thurbin/speed-camera-demo https://soundcloud.com/richard-thurbin/how-i-feel-demo https://soundcloud.com/richard-thurbin/up-high-demo I have sent them off to a friend of mine to see if they can do any better. The 4th track is still waiting for lead vocals... Will keep you posted! Now for the re-mixing challenge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1411736662' post='2562390']...Herding cars is hard work... [/quote] You mean, like this bloke..? http://youtu.be/Fp_95FbkKA8 Edited September 26, 2014 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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