What is it that makes some pickups sound so different from others

[Annoying Twit]

Some pickups sound punchy and produce good note definition. Some others sound produce indistinct mud. What is the difference between passive pickups (or wiring) that make pickups of similar design (or at least form) sound so different?

[zero9]

It's all black magic and electrickery.

You could start here: http://www.casparwood.net/physics/communication/Guitar.pdf

Edited August 14, 2014 by zero9

[HowieBass]

I [i]think[/i] it's a lot to do with the number of windings in the coils and the thickness of the wire used together with the design and materials used in the magnets. The design of the pickup determines the shape of the magnetic field within which the string vibrates. Single coil pickups usually have a narrower aperture than humbuckers where the aperture defines how much of the vibrating string is sensed and consequently the mix of fundamental and overtones seen. How well those physical vibrations are translated into a true electrical representation and what then comes out of the coil (the 'hot' wire from a pickup) is what gives you the characteristic sound of that pickup. The more windings you add to a pickup (often called overwinding) the higher the output but treble response falls correspondingly. Underwinding increases treble response but lowers output, so it becomes a balancing act of tonal response versus output. I [i]think[/i]...

[Annoying Twit]

The electrickery link does mention pickup coils having a natural resonance due to the number of coils around the magnet. There's not so much mention of the positioning of the pickups though. I wonder if there are any youtube videos demonstrating how tone changes when the pickup is moved to different positions.

Does the strength of the magnets make much difference?

If it's just resonances of the coils, then you'd think that EQ could change the sound of one pickup into another. What contributes to the very different note definition that different pickups have?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Annoying Twit

[HowieBass]

Watch Dave (from Dave's World of Fun Stuff) fettle an old Westone Rail Bass and then demonstrate the change in tone as he slides the pickup around

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pH1G9Ot85c

Stronger magnets could mean that the strings can't vibrate as freely which is the same situation as having the strings too close to the pickup, you get a louder sound but tone suffers; that's why pickup height tends to have a sweet spot.

Edited August 14, 2014 by icastle
Link fixed.

[The fasting showman]

Another characteristic in some designs is phase cancellation between two coils imparting a sound, a big part of the Stingray's scooped mid sound, I mention that as I am a big fan of the Stingray sound. Or the Tele bass mudbucker. Some humbuckers don't seem to have the same scoop.
I've heard there's something in ceramic pickups sounding better close to the string and alnico further away; dunno about that.
Not answering your question but there is a good book by Dave Hunter about pickups...it cured me of ever wanting to change pickups on a bass ever again. It made me realise that I was from the age group and era where it was all about upgrade equals louder, if that makes sense!
Martin

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1408035022' post='2526506']
Some pickups sound punchy and produce good note definition. Some others sound produce indistinct mud. What is the difference between passive pickups (or wiring) that make pickups of similar design (or at least form) sound so different?
[/quote]

There's lots of factors that make pickups sound different. Here just a few:

Magnet type
Magnet strength
Pole-piece positioning and shape
Wire gauge
Number of winds in a coil
Evenness (or not) of the winds
Size and shape of the coil
Position of the pickup with respect to the string length
How the pickup is mounted in the guitar

And that's before we consider things like the interaction of individual coils in multiple coil systems and the distance eof the pickup from the strings.

Also are there any true active pickups other than the Lightwave optical system? IMO so called "active" pickups like EMG are simply conventional pickups with the pre-amp circuitry encapsulated in the same body as the magnets and coils. The actual mechanism for sensing the string movement isn't active and without the pre-amp part the magnets and coils behave and work just like a conventional pickup.

[FlatEric]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1408035022' post='2526506']
Some pickups sound punchy and produce good note definition. Some others sound produce indistinct mud. What is the difference between passive pickups (or wiring) that make pickups of similar design (or at least form) sound so different?
[/quote]

I'm glad you asked that. . . . . . .
always facinated me and still does!

I have a term I sometimes use - "it would remove kidney stones at ten paces!"
Something with a lot of Punch, Depth, Definition and Power.

That is generally what I like but I do have some more mellow moments, now and again.

As you said, [i]Some others sound produce indistinct mud.[/i]
Thick and boomy or thin and compressed.

The DiMarzio P, Greco/Early Blazer pick-up, The series used by Ibanez on the RB650
both P & J, and several others I could name, given enough time, give a lot of punch.

Just a case of trying and seeing - I know many players who prefer a thicker/less defined
sound - so it's horses for courses!

[Kiwi]

I agree its black magic - pretty much every single aspect of construction has some impact on the sound of a pick up to a greater or lesser degree. The black magic part comes in the knowledge of how those aspects interact. I don't buy pickups off the shelf any more though, all of mine for the last 6 years have been custom made by either Wizard or Armstrong. The great thing about Armstrong is that they already make pickups for so many other manufacturers so all I have to do is say 'I want something that sounds like XXX bass' and they'll know exactly what I'm after.

[zero9]

Some pickups also age better than others, a bit like a good wine. I find that no matter how clean or muddy a pickup sounds, it is still very good at picking up my mistakes

[BigRedX]

Personally I don't think it's "black magic" at all. It's just that very few people have the time, energy, money, or inclination to work their way through all the different permutations of magnets and coils to find what works best for the sound that they have in mind.