Roland CB100 Dilemma

[Grangur]

Hi There,
I've never been in a band and I'm thinking of joining one. I've got a Roland 100w cube. It puts out a good volume, but would it be likely to hold its own in a small gig, maybe with an extension cab?

I've seen that I can currently buy an Ashdown Rootmaster 220 for £299 and get a free 210 cab. Should I go for this?

I ask because I've also heard that 200w won't give a massive amount more than a 100w. Should I go for the bigger Rootmaster; the 400w?

or do something else?

I'm looking at playing covers or blues. Not metal or punk.

Thanks for looking

Edit: I started off on this thinking I'll get a cab and simply "move more air". Yet with the Rootmaster at £299 it doesn't cost much more than a cab. My worry is would I out-grow it too fast?

Also, I'm 55, so really don't see me humping massive 410s and bigger. I'm also not under any illusions of playing at Glastonbury anytime soon.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Grangur

[gary mac]

Getting in to a band will be great for you Rich, pleased to hear it.

A few years back I regularly gigged a 100 watt combo. Mostly it could be heard but didn't really possess enough headroom to do it in a pleasing fashion. It all sounded a bit flubby (tech term) and like it was going to give up and expire. Things may have been better if an extension cab could have been added but with this particular combo, it wasn't possible.

If a second cab could be added to the Roland, then maybe it would be enough for you. It will depend on a number of factors of course, not least the drummer.

If a cab can be added to your Roland, you could borrow one of my Mark Bass Cabs and see how it sounds and whether it's loud enough.


Don't know much about Ashdown kit but I'm sure there are plenty on here who do.

[JTUK]

Too many rigs put out the required/received volume but do nothing to underpin the band.
A full rnange P.A will help, but you might have to put up a weedy sound on stage if you use your boxy backline sound. Less of a problem if the
stage is small but I think hugely compromised sounds like this do not help the palyability of the band AND bass player.

For putting bass out there, there is no real substitute for surface area..then you get into amps being able to produce.. IMO.
And I say this as I see and hear so many bands that fail at this basic stage. The reason Pub P.A's with subs are so popular
is that they deal with this problem almost by default, even if the band themselves don't realise, the subs will or should, give them
the depth of sound and seperation they may have missed in their own rig.

[Grangur]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1408347836' post='2529098']
Too many rigs put out the required/received volume but do nothing to underpin the band.
A full rnange P.A will help, but you might have to put up a weedy sound on stage if you use your boxy backline sound. Less of a problem if the
stage is small but I think hugely compromised sounds like this do not help the palyability of the band AND bass player.

For putting bass out there, there is no real substitute for surface area..then you get into amps being able to produce.. IMO.
And I say this as I see and hear so many bands that fail at this basic stage. The reason Pub P.A's with subs are so popular
is that they deal with this problem almost by default, even if the band themselves don't realise, the subs will or should, give them
the depth of sound and seperation they may have missed in their own rig.
[/quote]
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. When you talk about "Surface area", do you mean it's better to use a 15" than a 10"?
Or do you mean, ok, get the Ashdown, but get another 2x10" to bolster it up?

WRT PAs. Gary Mac will know more about the area, but I don't think (m)any pubs in this area have a PA.

If what you're saying is "neither of the options is much good", then what would you suggest is a good starting point? I like Gary's MB rig a lot, but Mrs G won't be too thrilled at me getting that as a starting option. I've seen good things said by Discreet and others of the GK MB200. I could get that and a cab - just one option.

Sorry if I'm slow, but I'm a real noob at cabs and amps.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Grangur

[JTUK]

Would always have a 210 over a 15 myself.
A combo including a 210 is not a bad start but I wonder how capable these things actually are in the real world.
For example, the Markbass 210 combo sounds good at low volume... but doesn't/can't carry that at louder volumes.
Adding a 210 under that will enhance it GREATLY, IMO, but only you will know if the single 210 combo is acceptable
soundwise in your context.

Not many pubs will supply a P.A and even those that do around here, they aren't worth using. Quite a few pub bands here carry
a full range P.A which WILL include subs and in that context, if your stage sound is controlled, a 210 may get you by... unless you have keys.

All these things/situations have huge variables to consider and you have to be reasonable about how far what you carry will go in
certain rooms or venues. If you go outside, you'll likely have to consider carrying twice as much...

As with most of these things, size, weight and carry seem to come before sound and so you should sort out the amp that you like/want
and then pair it with cabs. Most bass players will need more than one option of a rig... so will choose things they can scale up or down.
depending on the gig.

Default pub rig, IMO, is a 500w top into 4 ohms and a 212 or better still, but more expensive to buy, 2x112 so you can do the jazz/acoustic session
with a lighter carry.

[Grangur]

I've just spoken to the retailer... I stand corrected it's a 2x12 that comes with it. I'm tempted to go for the 420w - based on what you have said JTUK, and a PM conversation with Gary Mac - it's always good to have headroom.

I'll go later an try the 220 they have in stock.

PLUS - based on what has been said - best to keep the 100w cube. It has punch and good for home practice. (not to mention built in chorus and flange, although I also have a Zoom B3)

Many thanks guys

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Quick devils advocate opinion;

Don't buy another amp until you have sorted out the band situation. In the meantime, save your pennies and try stuff out, and check out what other players are using live in your local venues, whether it sounds good, how loud the band is etc.

How much SPL you need your amplification to deliver is going to be very dependant on the music you are playing, and the musicians you are playing with. 100w should be plenty capable for rehearsals IMHO, and most rehearsal studios have amplification for hire at low cost - once you are sure you are happy with the band, and have secured the gig then you can invest in something appropriate for that musical situation if you need to, without guessing about what you'll need or what type of sound you are looking for.

[Grangur]

Subsonic, you have a good point there too. I can see I'm going to have to do a pub-crawl round all the local gigs as well... probably with NO beer too!

If it's down to me I would prefer not to go too loud, but I know this is often dictated by the drums.

Gary Mac also made a good point in a PM to me;
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][quote]My Genz amp is 600 watts, so with both cabs connected, that amount of power is available. I've yet to crank the master volume past about the 10 o'clock position, couldn't tell you what that amounts to in Wattage though.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]the good thing about having a powerful amp is that it doesn't need to work too hard, there is plenty of headroom, so it doesnt get all flappy and distorted. Mind you some players like flappy and distorted.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Another good thing about having a powerful rig is that, if you are feeling a bit fatigued or hands are aching, you can turn the amp up but play with a more gentle touch. That has been very useful for me in recent times.[/quote][/font][/color]

[Lozz196]

I`m in roughly the same position as Gary, my Markbass set-up of 112 combo and 112 ext cab is rated at 500 watts, and I`m yet to need it above the 10 o`clock position on volume, and that`s with all eq flat, filters off, and gain at midday. No idea what it is in wattage but if I push it any further it is ridiculously loud. I used to use the combo on its own in my old less full-on band and that coped well enough, again never needed to push it. The 420 with a 212 cab should be plenty for most situations, I can`t see how it wouldn`t be enough for a regular pub gig.