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Using a 210 with a 410


bonzodog
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I am using a Hartke LH500 with a 410TP and am very happy with the sound. At a couple of big gigs Ive wanted a bigger sound to get the full 4ohms from my amp. Ive tried using a 115 along with my 410 but was not happy with my sound so I borrowed another 410 (all be it the XL not the TP) and loved the sound of having an 810.
However i neither have the room in the house or car for another 410 so was thinking of getting a 210TP as its smaller and thommann still sell them cheap. However I am sure i have read on another thread here that this is not an ideal set up due to the fact you are sending the same power from the amp into each speaker but one is half the size of the other even though the ohms are correct.
Can anyone confirm this as i also like the thought of being able to just taking my amp and the 210 to rehersal.
Cheers

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think you might need a hydrive 115 because the XL and VX TPs are only rated about 300-350w iirc ?? :blink:

i use a vx115 with a hydrive 410 but am only using ha2500 head at the moment but it definitely does pull the extra power out of the head

ed - what car do you have? i managed to get both cabs in a kia picanto and a peugeot 106 comfortably :)

Edited by steve-bbb
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[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1409477617' post='2539956']
think you might need a hydrive 115 because the XL and VX TPs are only rated about 300-350w iirc ?? :blink:

i use a vx115 with a hydrive 410 but am only using ha2500 head at the moment but it definitely does pull the extra power out of the head

ed - what car do you have? i managed to get both cabs in a kia picanto and a peugeot 106 comfortably :)
[/quote]

Hydrives are a bit out my price range and I would ideally like to stay with 10". I was just curious to see if a 210 and 410 was a feasible set up

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Adding the 210 version of your 410 is the least problematic thing you could do. If you want more than a 410 and an 810 is too much then a 610 could be the way to go.

Your amp will put out 250 watts to each cab. As long as the 210 is rated for that then you'll have no problem. The extra volume you get out of the amp running at 4 ohm will be overshaddowed by the extra volume and tone you'll get out of using 50% more speakers.

I don't know anyone with a 500 watt amp who is running it flat out but if you are you need a bigger rig, if you're not then you won't overload the 210.

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I`ve done the 210/410 thing and it`s worked great. As Chris says, as long as each cab is able to handle 250 watts there should be no problems. And as also said, very unlikely you`ll need to be running the amp at full power. It`s amazing the extra amount of sound, not necessarily volume you get from adding the 210 in. For a start it`s nearer your ears so easier to hear but the size of the sound seems so much more.

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[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1409485884' post='2540065']
Cool thanks guys. Only problem is the 210TP is only rated at 150W and the amp will be 250w per cab
[/quote]

As long as you don't push too hard, that, in itself, is not a problem. You'll know, anyway, if you're overloading a cab. Your ears will tell you. Be a tad conservative in your use of the volume knob and you should be OK.

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[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1409476765' post='2539951']
However i neither have the room in the house or car for another 410 so was thinking of getting a 210TP as its smaller and thommann still sell them cheap. However I am sure i have read on another thread here that this is not an ideal set up due to the fact you are sending the same power from the amp into each speaker but one is half the size of the other even though the ohms are correct.
[/quote]That's correct. For each driver to receive the same signal the impedance of the 210 must be twice that of the 410. The problem is that most manufacturers don't make them that way. If the 210 and 410 have the same impedance then the 210s capacity will determine your maximum clean output.
[quote]May look for a used 210XL then as they are 200W rather than a 210TP [/quote]
Watts are moot. What matters is driver excursion, and you have no way of knowing what that is. The only way to get a perfect match is to use identical drivers with the 210 twice the impedance of the 410.

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[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1409511113' post='2540362']
The down side of that is you're running your amp hot, therefor shortening it's life & increasing the risk of failure mid gig.
[/quote]

I think we've been here before. If it's designed to work at x ohms, it's OK at x ohms. Running 'hotter' may shorten the life academically by a century or two, but is that a 'real life' problem..? Is there any concrete evidence that running within manufacturers specs shortens the life when run at 16, 8, 4 or 2 ohms..? Seems dubious to me, but I could be convinced with proof. I'm not suggesting there's no difference, mind you; merely that the difference is negligible in 'real life'. Am I wrong..?

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1409515424' post='2540447']
I think we've been here before. If it's designed to work at x ohms, it's OK at x ohms. Running 'hotter' may shorten the life academically by a century or two, but is that a 'real life' problem..? Is there any concrete evidence that running within manufacturers specs shortens the life when run at 16, 8, 4 or 2 ohms..? Seems dubious to me, but I could be convinced with proof. I'm not suggesting there's no difference, mind you; merely that the difference is negligible in 'real life'. Am I wrong..?
[/quote]

But we aren't running those amps within build tolerances if the amp is not rated safe at 2 ohms. The guess is that some amps might be able to handle below 4ohms as those cabs are nominal anyway.. but I suggest you are risking it and it would shorten the life of certain components. Otherwise, why have that as a 'limit' anyway..?? How long will it last..??? hmm ask PF350/500 owners :lol:
I think the ability to run HOT is determined by the quality of the components and amps built to a certain ( low ) pricepoint aren't likely to have
many quality parts ... as that is not the nature or point of that build QC, IMO.

I think there is a reason amps aren't built to go to 2 ohms...

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No, I was in no way suggesting that a load of less than manufacturers spec is 'safe', only that, whilst remaining above minimum load, any extra heat will not, in the reasonable life of an amp, be a factor of shortening that life.
Do not run any amp at less than makers spec, at the risk of releasing the 'magic smoke'..!

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