Where no humbucker has gone before... i think..

[lucky]

Hi Guys, this is an open ended posting so all 2 cents welcome..

So I have an old ish fender jp-90, (kind've a pre-highway one cheapo AM bass) and the intention of upgrading it, my dilemma is how. I've never done anything beyond resoldering it before so I'll need a good tech (recommendations welcome) to implement this stuff. It's not too common a bass so I can't find much info on previous mod's to them.

here is a google pic of it:



The stock pickups and 'lectrics are pretty poor, so I'd like to take off all the originals, that way it can be reverted to stock in future, and replace the PJ pickups with a chunky MM/MEC style humbucker at the bridge (cue the boos and hisses..). The logic behind it is that I want an alternative to the PJ style and I'm loving the sound of the chunky humbuckers on my Warwick $$, I know that a few mod's won't make it sound like a Warwick but still.. I guess that the bridge coil will sit where the J pickup is now so hopefully that'll still sound familiar (right?) and as these basses were made on the cheap there is a big ol' cavity underneath the scratchplate so I don't think it'll require as much routing. I'd also like to have have a 3 way selector switch, bridge coils/both coils/neck coil, and a new bridge

The final dilemma is that I'm not huge on the Black/rosewood/maple headstock combo, and I'm considering relic'ing it (again boo, hiss) to expose some of the wood underneath or a possible refin.

So, my dilemma is whether should I butcher it so? and if yes, what would you do? and any input on how to proceed/past experiences appreciated

Cheers y'all

Edited September 23, 2014 by lucky

[paul_5]

What you'll need to bear in mind is that the screw lugs on MM style pups are on the top and bottom of the case, and J pickups have them on the left and right (long sides), so there might need to be a little bit of woodwork to accommodate this. I think the 'sweet spot' for the MM pickup placement is 52 or 53mm from the saddle of the G string to the centre of the pickup.

Hopefully this is of some help.

[alittlebitrobot]

No boos or hisses from me. I just wonder, can you really revert it to stock if you rout for a MM pickup? And, if the current J represents the MM bridge coil, is there enough room without having to remove/relocate the P?

As for the aesthetics. I too would change things around (not really a fan of all that black). I'm not against relic'ing, really. I think anything goes, but I know I wouldn't bother trying to make the thing look authentically worn. I'd just do a straight refinish. You should do whatever you want but, again, if you're thinking of reverting back to stock to sell it, your refinish is really going to affect the value.

[mingsta]

Does this bass have any sentimental value?

If not, then you might be better off selling it and getting something different. It sounds like a good £300 for parts and labour.

I briefly considered butchering my 94 stingray to make it an HH and refin, but concluded that with the money I'd spend, I'd be halfway to having enough for another used bass.

[lucky]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1411472743' post='2559804']
What you'll need to bear in mind is that the screw lugs on MM style pups are on the top and bottom of the case, and J pickups have them on the left and right (long sides), so there might need to be a little bit of woodwork to accommodate this. I think the 'sweet spot' for the MM pickup placement is 52 or 53mm from the saddle of the G string to the centre of the pickup.

Hopefully this is of some help.
[/quote]

I have to admit I'd not thought of that! thanks for the eagle eye. If the humbucker was placed further up (towards the neck) than 53cm, is there any way to guestimate how that will affect the sound?



[quote name='alittlebitrobot' timestamp='1411473038' post='2559810']
No boos or hisses from me. I just wonder, can you really revert it to stock if you rout for a MM pickup? And, if the current J represents the MM bridge coil, is there enough room without having to remove/relocate the P?

As for the aesthetics. I too would change things around (not really a fan of all that black). I'm not against relic'ing, really. I think anything goes, but I know I wouldn't bother trying to make the thing look authentically worn. I'd just do a straight refinish. You should do whatever you want but, again, if you're thinking of reverting back to stock to sell it, your refinish is really going to affect the value.
[/quote]

I suppose it'll never be totally stock, but if the electronics and parts are all original will it matter that there's a tad more wood missing from inside the cavity, which is covered by the scratchplate?



[quote name='mingsta' timestamp='1411473892' post='2559819']
Does this bass have any sentimental value?

If not, then you might be better off selling it and getting something different. It sounds like a good £300 for parts and labour.

I briefly considered butchering my 94 stingray to make it an HH and refin, but concluded that with the money I'd spend, I'd be halfway to having enough for another used bass.
[/quote]

Fair point, and you're probably right but I've grown to love the neck and the body shape/weight so I figure it's worth a go. I'm not attached to it yet, I've not named it and it's not a particularly collectible or valuable Fender so I think it's worth a punt to see if I get a bass that I actually play rather than waste as decoration which is what it's currently relegated to (decoration I don't admire particularly)


and regarding the finish- does it make sense to try to relic it a little and if I like it, I keep it or if I make a pigs ear of it then I fork out on a nice white (as that's pretty much the only colour I'd pick to match a rosewood fretboard) refin' or will that cause problems?

Cheers for the help so far guys

[iiipopes]

Before you irreversibly chop the body, consider something like the new EMG passive Geezer Butler P/J set. It has both a P and a split-coil humbucking J, and it comes with easy-fit connectors. Only one solder joint is needed: the bridge plate grounding wire. Big tone. It has great reviews both here and on TalkBass.

[Truckstop]

Why don't you just sell it? Is there anything about it that you like?!

Truckstop

[lucky]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1411666457' post='2561756']
Why don't you just sell it? Is there anything about it that you like?!

Truckstop
[/quote]

haha there is. It's one of the most comfortable guitars that I've ever played but i think that the old cheap electronics are letting it down so i'd like to see if i can have something that sounds as nicely as it plays before i move it on and regret it.
It's not particularly valuable so i doubt selling it would get me anywhere near being able to afford a custom build to replicate the aspects of the body and neck that i like. So it seems as though I might as well try to take those parts that i know i like and see if i can beef up the sound a little with replacement electronics.


[quote name='iiipopes' timestamp='1411665301' post='2561739']
Before you irreversibly chop the body, consider something like the new EMG passive Geezer Butler P/J set. It has both a P and a split-coil humbucking J, and it comes with easy-fit connectors. Only one solder joint is needed: the bridge plate grounding wire. Big tone. It has great reviews both here and on TalkBass.
[/quote]

I have to admit i'd not even considered emg's as it's got to be passive but they do look good like a good set. Ahhhh And now i have even more tempting choices to consider..

[Thunderbird]

[quote name='iiipopes' timestamp='1411665301' post='2561739']
Before you irreversibly chop the body, consider something like the new EMG passive Geezer Butler P/J set. It has both a P and a split-coil humbucking J, and it comes with easy-fit connectors. Only one solder joint is needed: the bridge plate grounding wire. Big tone. It has great reviews both here and on TalkBass.
[/quote] This sounds like a plan and is hell of a lot cheaper than butchery

[BassTractor]

[quote name='lucky' timestamp='1411477539' post='2559862']
If the humbucker was placed further up (towards the neck) than 53cm, is there any way to guestimate how that will affect the sound?
[/quote]

Not much scientific study has been done into this, but it's a concept that I feel deserves some looking into. That is: IF you are able to pull it off without routing away the truss rod, and given that the pup is indeed not wider than the neck up there.
Cool idea!
Good luck with this!

(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)

[paul_5]

Closer to the neck will deliver a warmer, rounder sound, closer to the bridge will give you a 'springy', more 'toppy' sound. That's about all I know!

[Sean]

Do a search on Pingray on this forum and have a read. Then decide what you fancy doing.

[miles'tone]

[quote name='lucky' timestamp='1411678003' post='2561909']


haha there is. It's one of the most comfortable guitars that I've ever played but i think that the old cheap electronics are letting it down so i'd like to see if i can have something that sounds as nicely as it plays before i move it on and regret it.
It's not particularly valuable so i doubt selling it would get me anywhere near being able to afford a custom build to replicate the aspects of the body and neck that i like. So it seems as though I might as well try to take those parts that i know i like and see if i can beef up the sound a little with replacement electronics.




I have to admit i'd not even considered emg's as it's got to be passive but they do look good like a good set. Ahhhh And now i have even more tempting choices to consider..
[/quote]

The EMG Geezer B's are passive.

[DarkHeart]

for a cheap option slap a pbxn and a jbxn entwistle and one of Johns (KiOgon) wiring looms in and create a monster, i put some in a cheapo cort and its fantastic.

Edited October 7, 2014 by DarkHeart

[iiipopes]

A good set of P/J pickups wired conventionally V-V-T would do wonders. Get a set that has a split-coil J-bridge pickup so the entire bass remains humbucking, put the tone control where the jack is and have a good luthier drill for a side jack. You can keep the mini-switch to do whatever you like, for example, series/parallel, or remove it and put a small grommet plug in the unused hole. That would be the least expensive way to get the big tone you are after.

[hamfist]

One thing to consider is that if you converted it to a single MM pickup setup, it would probably sound a whole lot better with a preamp in there too. Most people seem to want the extra tonal EQ tweaking that a preamp gives to a MM type setup. Your $$ has that preamp of course. Is there room under the pickguard for a preamp ? A bit of routing may be required. Or a P-retro (getting expensive here) which is very space-efficient.

I'd definitely like to see a white pickguard on that bass too. I like black as a basic colour on a bass but it needs highlights of some other light colour to make it rather less boring. Or maybe white or cream pickup covers, something like this ....

[url=http://www.ephotobay.com/share/sch-body.html][/url]

If it were me, I'd probably start off with a decent new set of PJ pickups, with white pickup covers. New sound and new look ! No routing, no new pickguard. It's an easy first thing to do anyway. Going the MM route sounds interesting but its a lot more work.

[WonderBird]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1413100299' post='2574823']
One thing to consider is that if you converted it to a single MM pickup setup, it would probably sound a whole lot better with a preamp in there too. Most people seem to want the extra tonal EQ tweaking that a preamp gives to a MM type setup. Your $$ has that preamp of course. Is there room under the pickguard for a preamp ? A bit of routing may be required. Or a P-retro (getting expensive here) which is very space-efficient.

I'd definitely like to see a white pickguard on that bass too. I like black as a basic colour on a bass but it needs highlights of some other light colour to make it rather less boring. Or maybe white or cream pickup covers, something like this ....

[url=http://www.ephotobay.com/share/sch-body.html][/url]

If it were me, I'd probably start off with a decent new set of PJ pickups, with white pickup covers. New sound and new look ! No routing, no new pickguard. It's an easy first thing to do anyway. Going the MM route sounds interesting but its a lot more work.
[/quote]

That is a really interesting bass. What is that body.. etc.
Any audio. I'm wondering if it sounds like a P squared. PeePee ish?!

[prowla]

Well, P-Bass pickups are humbuckers anyway.

I think you can get Jazz replacement humbuckers, which wouldn't require surgery.

An active circuit might be an option and cutting out a battery bay would probably be acceptable or even enhance the instrument.

Before getting out your hammer and chisel, it might be worth seeing the character of the instrument itself; try playing your basses unplugged and see if they sound similar, to avoid trying to compensate with pickups for something which isn't there in the first place.

An alternative to changing the bass at all would be to get a shaping preamp - I have a SansAmp and it is really good, for example to lift a passive bass to match an active one.

OTOH, if you want to play and tinker with the bass, then go for it and have a blast!