Genesis: Together and Apart (BBC Documentary).

[Sibob]

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1412605607' post='2570290']
Well the basic premise of the programme was supposed to be how one band had not only had success together, but spawned so many solo careers as well. As Steve has had a prolific and quite often artistically successful solo career I can understand him being a little peeved about the final edit, which seemed to imply that he just wandered off into the sunset some time in the 70s, never to be seen or heard again until now. While commercially not up there with PC's, PG's or even MR's, It could be argued that Steve Hackett has had a far more successful solo career than Tony Banks, with several top 30 albums and a few even getting into the top 20. Despite Mr Banks claiming that his first solo album made the top 20, the accompanying visual said otherwise...yet his solo career got quite a bit more air time than Mr Hackett's (not hard as Steve's got zero coverage). Seemed a bit odd to me to have not mentioned it at all, especially as Steve was the first one to record a solo album (which actually caused a bit of resentment within the Genesis machine, despite two of them appearing on it).

The conversations with the five of them in the room were very interesting though, especially some of the looks and body language. Even Mrs S clocked some of the stuff that wasn't said (verbally at least). Would have liked to see more of those discussions and less prattling, mainly from non-entities with little of consequence to say. I don't need someone who probably doesn't even really know that much about the band to help me understand - just show me the story, let the band talk and I can make up my own mind - but such is the nature of these types of programmes.

Good idea, dreadfully executed.
[/quote]

I largely agree with this.
I generally enjoyed the program, but why the hell do I need to hear Al Murray talking about Genesis?

Si

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1412605607' post='2570290']
less prattling, mainly from non-entities with little of consequence to say [...] Good idea, dreadfully executed.
[/quote]

Quite so. These sundry 'personalities' frequently give the impression that they are parroting a memorised script written by someone else. I fully expected to see a slightly bewildered Mary Berry expiating about the Mellotron.

The space occupied by these drones might comfortably have encompassed detailed digressions upon Mr Hackett's career, Mr Collins' sterling work with Brand X and the precise variety of lemon upon which Mr Banks is accustomed to suck.

[toneknob]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1412618164' post='2570468']
The space occupied by these drones might comfortably have encompassed detailed digressions upon Mr Hackett's career, Mr Collins' sterling work with Brand X and the precise variety of lemon upon which Mr Banks is accustomed to suck.
[/quote]

Agreed re Brand X - it was nice to see some Flaming Youth though.

[scoobystig]

Well I quite enjoyed it really, not being old enough to know the original lineup, my genesis is of Phil Collins, mike Rutherford and tony banks and so it was nice to see how the band was formed and what led to the line up that I knew growing up

I know of course of Peter Gabriel as I have been fortunate to meet him and record at real world studios, but was not overly aware of steve Hackett or indeed his solo work

However I didn't realise until last night how many genesis/ Gabriel / Collins / mike and the mechanics songs that I know

The one thing that was clear is that tony banks has the serious hump with Gabriel still and was certainly the most bitter one sat in that room

[flyfisher]

The basic storyline of 'tortured geniuses' producing great work together before all falling out with each other is so common that it might almost be a requirement for big successful bands.

[paulears]

We've lost perspective here. Our personal opinions are based on what we like, so in a way we are least able to view it objectively. Me, I dont like genesis output before the current lineup and I like the very tracks many hate, that's fine. From my experience working for TV, I have never seen a contract that guarantees any edit timings, and maybe much of hacketts material was cut because he simply didn't say useful things, good or bad. Until they speak, who knows what they'll say. Did it spin certain areas? Of course, that's what programme making is all about. Was it unfair to any? No I don't think it was. It was nice they included banks and rutherford's comments on how they viewed being second line, perfectly understandable. I bet Hackett didn't refuse his fee!

[steantval]

I enjoyed the documentary, it took me back to the 70's when we used to gate crash parties armed with tins of Party 7, listening to the Genesis Live album.

Banks came across as a right miserable old git though.

[toneknob]

Show your love for Steve Hackett and the music: [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I've got a spare ticket for Steve's Hammersmith show tomorrow if anyone's interested. Middle of the front stalls, row D! Yours for £40.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]PM me or drop me a line at [email protected]. [/font][/color]

Edited October 31, 2014 by toneknob

[spectoremg]

For the record Steve's first three albums after leaving the band were superb, then someone showed him a drum machine and told him he could sing. I think for someone who's making a pile of cash out of another Genesis Revisited album and tour he's being a little ungracious.
And I love the way Calling All Stations has been obliterated by the thought police - a piece of work Banks and Rutherford were proud of but never got touched on the 2007 tour.
And I had to do a double-take when Wind & Wuthering was skipped.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1419109265' post='2636756']
And I love the way Calling All Stations has been obliterated by the thought police - a piece of work Banks and Rutherford were proud of but never got touched on the 2007 tour.
[/quote]

I don't think it's an era they remember too fondly... to be fair, it's a pretty terrible record.

[BassBus]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1419109409' post='2636758']
...to be fair, it's a pretty terrible record.
[/quote]

At best that is a subjective comment. It's a country mile better than Abacab was. (Another subjective comment)

[spectoremg]

There were certainly a lot of negative comments made about Calling etc. I personally didn't like it. Rumour has it that Collins either refused to play or learn any songs from it for the '07 tour.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1419136956' post='2636902']
Rumour has it that Collins either refused to play or learn any songs from it for the '07 tour.
[/quote]

I'd be very surprised if it was even suggested...

[spectoremg]

I remember it was enquired about at the launch press conference and received a flat NO.

[spectoremg]

I've just watched the repeat of this from last weekend. Felt embarrassed for Steve as he explained why he left while the rest of them looked on stoney-faced. I know I've banged on about it previously but I'd love to have seen their faces if Ray Wilson had been mentioned. A good documentary has warts-and-all.

[The Admiral]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1412635400' post='2570723']
The basic storyline of 'tortured geniuses' producing great work together before all falling out with each other is so common that it might almost be a requirement for big successful bands.
[/quote]

Except Motley Crüe?

[JTUK]

I was watching the Gabriel Athens gig on Sky the other day and also went to see Gabriel at the O2
last year and I came away from both with the thought that Gabriel has some pretty awful filler
in his gigs, IMO. So, whilst I am no Genesis fan, at least they are more immediate and listenable
for the most part. In that regard, I can understand why the breakabout units are a bit sour as
they don't seem to occupy the best popular period. If you consider Gabriel and to a lesser degree,
Hackett, the talent, and I'm not sure about Hackett myself, then the 'watered' down Genesis eclipsing
them is a bit gauling..and then for Collins to go on and have his career as well, might well and truly
put a few faces out..??

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1424058957' post='2692071']
Felt embarrassed for Steve as he explained why he left while the rest of them looked on stoney-faced[/quote]

I wouldn't feel too bad. From the look of his new album cover, I don't think he does embarrassment.

[chris_b]

TV people shouldn't be left in charge of music programs. It seems the subject isn't enough for them. That's why you always get the likes of Al Murray telling you how good the band was when you wanted to be listening to the band. I'm surprised Bono wasn't invited to gush.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1424081132' post='2692231']
TV people shouldn't be left in charge of music programs. It seems the subject isn't enough for them. That's why you always get the likes of Al Murray telling you how good the band was when you wanted to be listening to the band. I'm surprised Bono wasn't invited to gush.
[/quote]

As it 'appens, I've been doing a bit of work recently for someone involved in The Beatles Anthology, so I ended up watching all of that.

Yes, it's something like 11 hours long, but there's no filler at all. There's not even any talking heads - the only people interviewed for it were the surviving Threetles, George Martin, Neil Aspinall and Derek Taylor. The level of detail it goes into is astonishing, yet even a casual fan like myself was totally transfixed. It's 20 years old, and it's still the yardstick for how it should be done.

EDIT - mind you, it took five years to make and probably cost silly money. Probably a lot cheaper these days, mind.

[chris_b]

Did Apple have editorial control? Was Neil Aspinall an executive producer?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1424082042' post='2692255']
Did Apple have editorial control? Was Neil Aspinall an executive producer?
[/quote]

Yes, but the director was a pretty formidable character, and absolutely passionate about the whole project, so he managed to push a little bit harder than most.

[JTUK]

I believe the Athens gig was a substantial part of 'So' and the O2 gig was the 25th aniiversary.
We may have been too far back in the arena and it was being DVD'd so there was a lot
of gee-ing up the audience but apart from the guys at the front going 'nuts' the rest of the
crowd seemed underwhelmed.
I went because I wanted to see the 'classic' band line-up but yes, walked out thinking
how on earth are they going to make a good DVD out of that.
I wanted to like it...which is why I went.. but not a memorable gig by any means and
the O2 didn't help, maybe.
None of the crowd we went with really said much about it and that is not a good sign either.
I don't think it was just me...for sure.

[The Admiral]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1424074910' post='2692116']


I wouldn't feel too bad. From the look of his new album cover, I don't think he does embarrassment.


[/quote]

Too much Game of a Thrones I suspect.

[spectoremg]

Anything Gabriel's done from Up onwards is filler and I'm guessing that's a big chunk of his recent shows.