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Help With Buying My First Amp?


Samfordia
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Sorry to bring up an obvious thread like this but I find myself a bit stuck. I am ready to buy my first amp but there are a few things I am unsure about and finding good examples of sounds etc seems a little more difficult than it would be if buying an actual bass.

Forgive me a couple of very beginner level questions:

- A combo is a head and cab in one? Is a head and cab more desirable because it has more functionality and control?

- What is a preamp? Is it merely the knob controls on an amp?

My budget would be 200-300 but it's possible to save if there is something I desire. I am looking for an aggressive sound, something more post-punk, punk, alternative and fairly direct. When I have tried to search for an amp with that sound I always seem to end up with tube amps but I don't have much knowledge of these.

- Do tube amps need a part replacing after a time? Are tube amps now more old fashioned and being phased out at all?

- What are the pros and cons of a tube or valve amp?

Working out whether to buy an amp just for home or purchasing with a little more foresight has been on my mind. I wouldn't want to buy an amp that ended up being of little use to me this time next year but I also wouldn't want to end up with an amp that was overkill if I was only jamming in a garage, for example. Perhaps there is a level of amps that are good for practice and playing with others but also small room gigs?

The bass I will be using is a Yamaha BB.

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Hi there,

In short, yes, a combo is a head and cab in one. They have their advantages and disadvantages over separates rigs. Personally, I use separates and always have done, as they allow for a lot more flexibility, and I can mix and match heads with different cabs to experiment with different speaker sizes and such. I've used combos as well, generally, they tend to be a bit heavier, but if it's just for jamming in a garage, that's not the end of the world. There isn't really anything that's overly heavy and too much to lift, unless you look at an old Trace Elliot 4x10 combo!

A preamp goes in between the bass and the amp, these are what tend to give the eq, and some have other features such as distortion and compression. These shape the amps sound.

Tube amps tend to have a nice warm sound to them, I don't like them myself as they require a lot more care. You can't move them if you want to get out of a gig in a hurry, as they're fragile usually, and even more fragile when still hot (and the tubes get VERY hot), and though you won't need to replace the amp, eventually, the tubes will need replacing, and it's not the cheapest of jobs. But, on the other hand, if you look after it, it'll look after you and they can last a while.

As for the sound thing, a good solid state amp (none tube) will give you pretty much any sound you want. I've been able to get my sound out of an ancient Acoustic head, and my pretty much brand new Aguilar class D head.

My advice for buying something, is don't get anything that's likely to lose value. If you find it's not you after a while, you can sell it on, and hopefully not lose too much value. Also look for good deals, there's lots on here which would fit your budget and suit you well. I'd always go for something that's more than you'd need though, as it leaves room for expansion. A cab that'll take more power than that amp will put out would work well, as you can upgrade just your amp head for something more powerful, and keep the cabs, rather than having to upgrade everything at once.

As you're in Salford, if you've got any way of getting to Rochdale, feel free to give me a shout and I can take you through a couple of amp and cab combinations. I'll even pop the kettle on!

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[quote name='goblin' timestamp='1412550065' post='2569940']
As you're in Salford, if you've got any way of getting to Rochdale, feel free to give me a shout and I can take you through a couple of amp and cab combinations. I'll even pop the kettle on!
[/quote]

Well what a lovely chap. The warmness of this forum never ceases to amaze me.

..and thanks for giving me something to start from.

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I agree with goblin ,there's a good chance you will want to go out gigging in the near future . I'd go with a amp and cab unless you want both but not a luxury everyone can afford .but I do love my fender rumble 100 watt combo pokey little bugger + you can di it . I use at rehearsals with my band if I can't be bothered to take my rig .let us all know how you get on with your choice of gear and if you need any advice ask away someones always got the answers on here .ps you said about your sound you may have to throw in some pedals to get your sound .as most bass cab and heads play clean but not .all the best

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I would suggest that it isn't worth buying an amp until you actually need one - for home practice a unit like the [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/zoom_b1on.htm"]zoom B1on[/url] offers a ton of really useful features that you won't find on a dedicated bass amp(like drum machine, looping etc), and if you are beginning your journey into playing bass, then being able to practice often is way more beneficial than being able to practice loud IMHO. The zoom B3 is a step up as it will function as a USB audio interface for recording on PC/MAC and has a proper DI output for live/recording, and your PC really gives access to a ton of excellent educational and creative musical resources.

Most rehearsal spaces have cheap amp hire, which means that if you are considering joining a band, you can meet up and play with them before committing to purchasing an amp, and then buy something with a good idea of what you need for that particular musical situation. My local rehearsal studio also hire amps off premises on a day basis, so it isn't strictly necessary to own an amp, but worth noting that the more often you need to use it the more sense it makes to own one.

Try to be realistic about what you need the amp for, and your personal circumstances - if you join a band that practices in the drummers garage/cellar, plays mostly for fun, and doesn't require moving kit about constantly, then there is plenty of cheap secondhand bargains that are unfashionable, bulky and heavy but will still get the job done reliably and allow you to enjoy playing with others in a band situation. Usually for these type of bands, gigging will involve (initially at least) playing a handful of songs at a jam night, or supporting other local bands, and in both cases it may be completely unnecessary to cart an amp to the venue (jam nights usually have backline provided, on support slots you might be able to arrange to use the headliners amp if you ask nicely beforehand).

If you are playing in a band that gigs frequently, or multiple bands and you need to move your amplification about a lot, maybe even using public transport, then the more expensive lightweight gear is a good(or even essential) investment, but this route can be very costly even secondhand, so the more time you have to save if you don't need an amp right now, the better.

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Just for clarity, tube/valve amps come in 2 main flavours.

The majority of 'valve' amps only have valves in the pre-amp stage, to give that warm tone. They have a solid state power stage to boost the signal out to the speakers. Pre-amp valves don't run particularly hot, will last for years, and are usually a simple 'non-techie' swap out if you want to replace them.

Full valve amps have the pre-amp valves, plus big, hot, glowing power amp bottles at the back, and usually some hefty great transformers in there are well. The power valves need replacing far more often that the pre-amps, and depending on the amp, may need a technician to set the bias on them. Some amps have user- controlled biasing which makes it simpler.

Hope that helps

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And then you've got the wonderful world of Class D amps. Sound great, weigh nothing. But, they get mixed reception from players. Some (including myself) love them, as they're easy to cart about, more than loud enough, provide decent reliability and they're easy enough to get a good sound out of. But others don't like them so much, usually for sound purposes.

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Don't rush into buying anything and listen to as many as you can before making a decision.

Your ears are the best guide and reviews on this and other forums are always very helpful.

Check out Youtube clips for gear reviews as a guide to build a shortlist, and if possible take an experienced bass player with you to try out gear if at all possible.

I believe in buying the best you can afford. You obviously get a lot more "bang for your buck" buying preowned, but be very wary and check feedback of sellers and ensure gear has not been thrashed!

Consider your need for portability and the ability to add another cab or extension cab to a combo to boost output in future.

Older and usually heavier gear can be great value, only if you don't need to carry it around all over the place.

When I started out (40 years ago) I always preferred separate heads and cabs and the ability to build a rig and use various cabs options etc.

Bass combo design has come a very long way in recent years and now there are many really great sounding combos available. I now use combos and separates equally depending on gig etc.

All Valve/Tube preamps and power amp are very heavy and fragile particularly when hot. Typically Ampeg SVT & Fender Bassman etc classic vintage tones but cost an absolute fortune

Hybrid or Fusion amps with Tube preamp & solid state power amp are a great compromise, lighter than all tube and less fragile, but still relatively expensive compared to all solid state.

All solid state preamps and poweramp are inherently most reliable and lowest cost.

The amp market is very competitive and all major brands produce good stuff, so it is very much a matter of personal taste. There may be the odd rogue model about with reliability issues, but these are in the minority and once you think you know what you want, just ask for this forum for views Basschatters are sure to oblige!

It has been a buyers market for a few years now due to this ongoing recession. Good hunting!

Edited by BassManGraham
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I think it's also important to accept that you will do all your research, get good quality advice from the kind community on basschat, make a careful studied purchase and buy the amp setup of your dreams, and you will be the happiest man on the planet, then in three months time you will want something else, don't fight it, don't beat yourself up about it, accept that the wife won't understand, don't resist, go with it, it's part of being a bass player!

Edited by chrisanthony1211
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Question:

I'm still researching and taking in to account advice I have received. I have been looking at a few tonight and there is something I do not quite understand.

There's an amp combo with a few different versions that are identical other than a difference in speakers. If they're all 250w then what is the difference between one having a 15" speaker and the other two having a 12" and then two 10" speakers? I assume that I don't quite understand what wattage means if I am confused by this. I've been reading wattage as a rating for how loud it will be. But if the wattage can be equal from a 15" speaker vs two 10", yet the latter costing more, then there's obviously something I am not quite getting.

Educate me, please?

(Edit: Also, what is a tweeter?)

Edited by Samfordia
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Hi
As far as I am aware, different speaker configurations have different characteristics, and different surface areas which have an impact upon how much air they can shift. 15 inch speakers, whilst loud, I find them to be boomy, wooly, and not particularly responsive, whilst 10 inch speakers are punchy but don't get quite the volume and boominess of the 15 inch, and 12 inch speakers are a compromise between the two. Each to their own but I never liked 15 inch speakers.

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[quote name='Samfordia' timestamp='1413778514' post='2581703']
Question:

I'm still researching and taking in to account advice I have received. I have been looking at a few tonight and there is something I do not quite understand.

There's an amp combo with a few different versions that are identical other than a difference in speakers. If they're all 250w then what is the difference between one having a 15" speaker and the other two having a 12" and then two 10" speakers? I assume that I don't quite understand what wattage means if I am confused by this. I've been reading wattage as a rating for how loud it will be. But if the wattage can be equal from a 15" speaker vs two 10", yet the latter costing more, then there's obviously something I am not quite getting.

Educate me, please?

(Edit: Also, what is a tweeter?)
[/quote]

If the combo has 3 different speaker configs then maybe you can try all 3 and see what you think...and how you like or dislike them.
We can only talk in general terms about how a cab will behave and sound so assuming the combo baox size is the same..??
it make not be,... then the difference can be in the tune of the cab, or sound bias.
Typically, 15's are fatter and slower sounding/responding to transients so would have a tradtional typical sound.
10's are typically tighter and punchier but may seem bass light, and 12's are between the two. This is not the whole story but
it suits the industry to present as such, IMO.
Many speaker/woofer units may not go much beyond 3khz... so a tweeter is a hi freq unit to allow hi frequencies which may go beyond 12khz or so in its specs.
The balance between crossover and capability of the hi freq horn/tweeter is another grey area, but you should expect the sound to gain
some presense if the cab has one.

So, it is easier, if not entirely fair, to think of 15's 12's and 10's in the terms of above but they all work so it is best to try a few to get your reference.

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I've gone through lots of stages whilst looking into which amp to buy. I got to the point where I decided to buy a good quality practice amp and to then wait until I actually need something more further down the line where I may know more and also have even more funds. I thought that a good solid amp that will last me for a long time would be great for practicing with and perhaps jamming with a guitarist, and then when I get to the stage where I need something to gig with I could buy something more substantial.

From this, I found that a lot of the most popular practice amps weren't necessarily much cheaper than other more powerful amps. I have read that Peavey make solid builds and I found one that seems to good to be true in many ways. It has some of the things I was looking for in a larger amp such as DI, mid, headphone socket and amp in. Plus, it's 300 watts, so quite possibly something that will be sufficient for quite some time.

[url="http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Peavey-MAX115-MKII-Bass-Combo-Amplifier/U6S#"]http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Peavey-MAX115-MKII-Bass-Combo-Amplifier/U6S#[/url]

I doubt I will find this in a shop to try, but I have found examples of it on YouTube. Is there something obvious that I am overlooking? Because it seems crazy cheap!

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Oldschool Peavy gear is very solid, but bear in mind that Peavey manufactured most of their stuff in their own facilities since the company started, in recent years however they have been outsourcing their manufacturing, so it would be somewhat unwise IMHO to assume that the new stuff is going to be as solidly built as the old stuff. Also worth noting that not all older Peavey gear is equally well loved - the black widow equipped cabs and combos are good, the blue marvel equipped ones are meh.

Wattage ratings are fairly meaningless, but they give the manufacturers numbers to put in their advertising copy, but what they don't tell you is whether the speaker in the combo can translate this power into sound effectively, reliably, and whether it will sound good while doing it. The speaker cab is crucial to translating the amps electrical output into sound - good quality drivers don't come cheap, and in the super cheap combos you most certainly won't be getting good quality speaker drivers. The cheap drivers in low end combos might sound OK at lower volumes, but whether they can handle the amp being cranked and live to tell the tale is another matter, and you might want to check if replacement drivers are available and how much they cost before commiting.

Go play through some amps at your local music shops, and make a point of trying the better quality stuff as well as the things you can immediately afford - if you don't have a frame of reference, how can you tell what will fit your requirements or expectations?

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[quote name='Samfordia' timestamp='1413968915' post='2584088']

[url="http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Peavey-MAX115-MKII-Bass-Combo-Amplifier/U6S#"]http://www.gear4musi...-Amplifier/U6S#[/url]

it seems crazy cheap!
[/quote]

Crazy cheap at £160 or £320 ?

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Good luck with the amp buying I decided to future proof with separate head and cab. Got a tc electronic bh500 head and a 2x10 cab the amp was a a choice between a combo fender 350 that has been discontinued now happy with the tc headphone socket tube tone valve emulation built in tuner google u tube for them the cabs with a tweeter and two ten in give me a nice punchy sound

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[quote name='afterimage' timestamp='1414359536' post='2588662']
Good luck with the amp buying I decided to future proof with separate head and cab. Got a tc electronic bh500 head and a 2x10 cab the amp was a a choice between a combo fender 350 that has been discontinued now happy with the tc headphone socket tube tone valve emulation built in tuner google u tube for them the cabs with a tweeter and two ten in give me a nice punchy sound
[/quote]

If you haven't got yourself sorted yet, I can heartily recommend the BH500. I've got one & it is a brilliant head! T C Electronic heads do have their detractors in here because the power output ratings of 500 watts are not totally accurate. For me though, the only problems with the BH500 is that you'll need a Speakon extension cable to connect to a cabinet & there's no FX loop. These are very minor problems though, as I-and plenty of others on here-think it's a loud & versatile amplifier.

If you do get a 2x10"/1x12"/1x15" cab, make sure it has a link socket for a 2nd cab.

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[quote name='1970' timestamp='1414360461' post='2588677']
Hi, are you in a band and playing shows?
[/quote]

No, not even close.

[quote name='indiegrungesound' timestamp='1414511785' post='2590052']
If you haven't got yourself sorted yet, I can heartily recommend the BH500. I've got one & it is a brilliant head! T C Electronic heads do have their detractors in here because the power output ratings of 500 watts are not totally accurate. For me though, the only problems with the BH500 is that you'll need a Speakon extension cable to connect to a cabinet & there's no FX loop. These are very minor problems though, as I-and plenty of others on here-think it's a loud & versatile amplifier.

If you do get a 2x10"/1x12"/1x15" cab, make sure it has a link socket for a 2nd cab.
[/quote]

I spent a while looking through the TC range and was rather into it for a while. I eventually found a fair few negative reviews based on their reliability and actual output which put me off a little. Having said that, I'm sure there will be negative reviews for everything if you look hard enough.

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[quote name='Samfordia' timestamp='1414512138' post='2590055']
I spent a while looking through the TC range and was rather into it for a while. I eventually found a fair few negative reviews based on their reliability and actual output which put me off a little. Having said that, I'm sure there will be negative reviews for everything if you look hard enough.
[/quote]

To be fair, I nearly went against T C Electronic gear when I first purchased a BH500. The VERY first model I bought, after having a solid 20 minute tryout in the store, had it's electronics fail with half an hour of getting it home. Naturally, I took it back to the shop, and the very helpful staff were able to source it's fully functional replacement within 3 days. Not had a problem with it since(Touch Wood.).

If you haven't tried one, I'd give it a go first. If it's then not to your liking, no harm done.

Hope you do get sorted soon!

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