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Thunder Jet - yes...another Westone!


Andyjr1515
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A bit more progress. Bryan and I have agreed the strategy for the veneer choice and colour tone. We are going to trial two veneers - I won't reveal either of them until we're happy with one of them and the actual veneering is on the way. It's a new supplier for me - shipped from Germany and one that Bryan tracked down.

I'm ordering some other veneers at the same time to see what the quality, shipping damage, etc, is like. If it looks a good 'un, I'll circulate the details.

While I'm waiting for the veneer, I'll order some more colour samples - you need quite a wide range because you can never be quite sure how the colour is going to be affected by each particular wood.

In the meantime, this evening, I started to have a look at the neck. Yes - there's some damage to patch up on the top edge of the headstock but I've started to micro-mesh (GREAT stuff if you've never tried it) the headstock and the neck. Both are starting to come out smooth and satin. I don't think I'm fully through the added varnish yet on the neck but it is already starting to look good and feel SILKY smooth. It probably needs a lot more micro-meshing but I'll see if it's good enough to photograph in the light tomorrow :)

The other thing I've started doing is crowning the frets. They're not too badly worn but I'm not going to take them down until the wear marks completely disappear - just enough to have a proper fret profile, enough so you can't feel the dips and the fretted notes are spot on.

I'm travelling again next week but hopefully be able to make a decent amount of progress between now and then.

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Here's the headstock. Still some vestiges of the over-varnish (bottom edge) but 'satin-ing' up nicely:





And here's the back:





Still a lot of work to do with the neck. There are a few dints that I will ignore, but one deep one that you feel as you run your thumb up the fretboard. A couple of ways this can be tackled, but I will first try the method I use to hide inlay gaps in ebony. I mix ebony dust (collected last time I radiused an ebony fretboard) into epoxy and then fill the dint with that. Once it's been sanded with micro-mesh, it should be pretty invisible.

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[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1413460540' post='2578415']
I think I'm about as excited as you and Bryan are in seeing this bass reborn :D
[/quote]
Great, isn't it! It's why this could never be much more than a breakeven hobby for me....I just love trying to make things better than they were :-)

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Veneers are ordered; new ink samples received and look promising; frets confirmed as level and polishing started; ebony/epoxy dint fill on the back of the neck will be tried this evening; primer and touch-up paint for the top edge of the headstock should be able to be bought in the morning...nothing much to show but pleasing progress all the same :)

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I've ordered a selection of micro meshes for polishing frets and getting some cloudiness out of a finish I (roughly) sanded flat after gluing a paint chip back in.

I'm excited about that (fretwork & finish repair(s) - might post a thread (even though I won't have before pics of the chip :( ).

Enough about my exploration of smoothing & polishing -

The refinish on this Westone is looking promising,

I think the veneer should add a gorgeous accent to what is a fairly empty body (like any one colour P without a scratchplate) - and replacing the 'misery' blue with a vibrant green / greenburst should scream rock!

Correct me if I'm way out but this was kinda what I'm picturing:



I like the concept - the bass has already been refinished (poorly) - so why not take it up a notch with a revamp project!
The really good news is the serial and the logo survived - so in years to come this unique creation will still have a connection to it's creators. B)

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Hi, PlungerModerno :)

Well - if it came out anything like that I think both Bryan and I would be eating our respective hats :lol:

...but yes, conceptually that kind of thing but with a fancier veneer underneath (and a less perfect finish on top!). The veneers that Bryan has chosen are both stunning so, if either works, it should be quite something. The choice is also Tru-oil to give more of a satin look and quicker to 'age' naturally.

I think you'll be really pleased with the micro-mesh - it's so much better to use than normal wet and dry for the kinds of things you're talking about.

Thanks for following the thread!
Andy

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Bit more progress this evening - I'll post some shots tomorrow:[list]
[*]The ebony dust /epoxy repair for the neck dint didn't hold well enough (it's a very small dint and there wasn't enough of a key to make it bond well enough) so I used my next favourite - ebony dust and superglue. Basically a tiny drop of superglue into the dint, covered by ebony dust and squeezed into the glue and dent. Let it set then micro-mesh down to smooth. Not quite invisible but now it cannot be felt at all.
[*]Fretboard scraped clean with a one-sided razor-blade, micro-meshed smooth, oiled, cleaned, oiled and buffed - looks beautiful
[*]Frets polished with 2400, then 4000 then 6000 micro mesh
[/list]

Edited by Andyjr1515
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Awesome stuff. The beauty shot of the G&L L1500 is really just for colour comparison - That's a solid ash body finished in a way that's been run through thousands of times - not a restoration / refin done as a one off. If this Thunder winds up looking as neat as your other work it'll be beautiful, not to mention unique.

Of course it's not fair to compare solid wood to veneer. If you do compare them closely, especially on complex shapes (e.g. cutaways) there is no contest. With the broad flattish front of this bass there should be almost no sign that it's a sliver rather than a slab - if the edges are tastefully bordered (either faded to black or bound / bordered somehow like the Yamaha below).

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[quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1413631244' post='2580311']
Looks crackin'!!! How much gunk did you have to scrape off? ;-)
[/quote]
Not too much, Bryan :lol:

I don't think the bass has been hammered in its past - for its age, the fret wear was not too bad and not too many round-wound impressions in the fretboard either. Simply had to get beyond the string depressions of the lower strings at the lower frets.

Just about to go out while it's dry and finish sanding the body ready for the veneer when it arrives. I lose most of my evenings this coming week with the day-job travel but hope to come back to the veneer waiting for me next weekend!

Andy

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It stayed dry enough for me to do a bit of grouting (tactics) and get the bulk of the remaining black paint off the Thunder Jet. I won't be sanding the structural veneer any more than this - it would make it too thin for my cunning plan.



Getting deep enough on the back and sides to eliminate the soaked in black usually takes HOURS of extremely tough sanding but I took a gamble and recently invested in an Abranet sander - first time I've used it and it's ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC :D

It's pictured on the table above. It attaches to a vacuum cleaner and uses velcro to hold the micromesh in place. As it sucks all the sanding dust away, it is claimed to make sanding much quicker and extend the life of the sandpaper at the same time. Well, I always approach these things with a healthy dose of scepticism and yet I reckon it took 70% off the time to do this bit of sanding. Wonderful invention.

It also, of course, makes sanding almost dust free. I started the sentence with Mrs Andyjr1515 and got as far as 'Hey - that's a thought, when it's raining...' The answer was as quick as it was brutal...'No!' :rolleyes:

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[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1413614653' post='2580099']
You could be my PR man :-)
I presume you know that's one of mine...
[/quote]

I'll consider it - and yes, I remember seeing that pic on another thread, thought it was a cool way to "boutique" up a plain bass - especially if it's already been modded / refinished, or is well worn down.

The vacuum sander is a nice idea - I've only ever seen it on bench style tools.
Keep up the good work.

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I really like it. I've been meaning to build a Yew capped guitar for a while as have some nice stuff stashed away but haven't got round to it yet. One of those woods where the cracks and knots really add character....Anyway, sorry for the de-rail, good luck with the re finishing, I'm sure it'll turn out great having seen your other stuff :).

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[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1413753298' post='2581620']
I really like it. I've been meaning to build a Yew capped guitar for a while as have some nice stuff stashed away but haven't got round to it yet. One of those woods where the cracks and knots really add character....Anyway, sorry for the de-rail, good luck with the re finishing, I'm sure it'll turn out great having seen your other stuff :).
[/quote]
Thanks. It was my main gigging guitar until I had a go at another forum's summer challenge to take a cheap kit and turn it into something special. Now THAT is my main gigging guitar :rolleyes:

The Yew one came out well. I've done a violin too in Yew - it really is a nice looking wood and easy enough to work. But you have to be VERY careful with the chippings and dust. It is very poisonous...

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK - we're back on the road :)

The gap has been me travelling for the day job and Bryan and I trying a few 'what-if' trials with the various veneer / stain options.

First of all, I have to say that my buying experience with the German veneer supplier that Bryan found, [url="http://www.designholz.com/index.php"]designholtz.com[/url] was a very good one indeed.

Some of the veneer I bought was over 2 metres - it all arrived in an impossibly small box after about 5 days, tightly coiled and with no edge damage whatsoever. The quality of the veneer is also very good and the choice is the best I've seen outside the States. Prices are VERY reasonable - although you need to be serious enough to buy a reasonable amount as the basic packing and shipping cost is similar for one sheet as for ten.

So the project is going to be a real win-win - I have never come across this supplier before...thanks Bryan :D

Here are some veneers we have rejected (some I bought for other projects and stained green just to see how they came out):

This is Indian Apple:



It's very organic and looks like banana leaves when it's stained this colour!

Below is some quilt maple I bought for a different project but stained the same colour to see what it looks like:




....and, below, THIS IS THE ONE WE'RE GOING FOR:




It's birch burl and, before staining, is white with black figuring. On the Thunderjet, the sides will be very dark green (almost black) with a narrow and fading burst round to the veneered, green-stained, top and back.

I'm in the UK this coming week so should be able to make some decent progress during the evenings. I'll keep you all posted :)

Andy

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Bit of progress this afternoon - the veneer for the front is on.

First I rough cut the veneer with about 25mm overlap:



Then a thin but complete coating of PVA both onto the body and the veneer. I use Evo Stik Wood Adhesive (the green bottle) - it is a decently thick PVA that behaves itself and is readily available. I also use a small sponge roller (again - any DIY shop) as it gives a great full but even coating.

When you coat the veneer, it starts to curl so I have a small atomiser bottle (£1 from superdrug) with water in it to spray a very light water mist to the other side. Then let both coated surfaces dry to touch dry (about 1/2 hr)

Then the veneer is laid on and positioned on the body. It is then ironed on. I use a small iron I used to use for modelling but a standard iron (used dry!) will do fine.




This is wide enough for one sheet - for this the ironing starts in the middle and works outwards. Particular attention is paid to the edges of the body. The veneer is tougher once the PVA is on and bends quite well, so the simple curve of the arm rest is no problem (compound curves are problematic without a vacuum bag or similar.

Then I trim to within 1cm of the body with sharp scissors so that I can firmly iron round the edges without splitting the veneer:



Basically, you run the toe of the iron round the body shape a number of times, slowly easing the veneer round the shape at the same time as securing the bond of the veneer and body at the edge.

Next, I use a Stanley disposable knife to carefully saw / cut the veneer edges, always with the grain trying to pull the knife away from the body so that it doesn't dig in:



You can see above that the veneer has no problem with the arm rest, provided there are no compound curves.

Looks OK, doesn't it? :)




The back will have to wait until tomorrow - I've run out of disposable knives (and they have to be SHARP!) :D

Thanks for looking

Andy

Edited by Andyjr1515
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