Andyjr1515 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) There I was, just six months ago, blissfully ignorant that there ever was a make called Westone... and now... ...after Chris Sharman's Thunder III fretless, then PaulS's Pantera, I have just been commissioned by Allighatt0r to spruce up his Westone Thunder Jet! I'm flattered, fellas...thanks Allighatt0r dropped in this evening (how you can 'drop in' to Derby when you live in Mildenhall is a complete other story) with the Thunder Jet which he has just left in my clutches and is happy for me to do a 'live' refurb thread. As Chris and Paul already know, this may take some time... But, if it is of interest to any of you, I suggest you pop a, let's say monthly, reminder in your diaries to have a look to see if there's any progress and more to the point whether that progress is the 'good' kind of progress Only kidding, Allighatt0r! It'll be fine...just fine When the little beauty first came out of the bag, it looked pretty good: They really are nice basses, aren't they. A closer look revealed a few issues which has prompted Allighatt0r to bring it to me. The body has been resprayed in the past by persons unknown. What we do know is that they weren't all that great at spraying: Something distinctly odd has also been done with the headstock: The top of the headstock has shed both its varnish and its black paint: Luckily, Allighatt0r is not a purist...if he was, I don't think he would have come my way What he wants is:[list] [*]For it to look better [*]The body covering to be stripped down to the wood and, depending on what we find under the coating, stained moss green, then a light varnish recoat. I showed him some of the finishes on my guitars and basses and he favours a tru-oil finish [*]Black pickguard to a particular shape...this will have to be cut from a blank [*]Replacement of the jack socket [/list] Along the way, I will tidy up the neck, re-crown a few worn frets and polish the rest. I had the same conversation as I'd had with Chris and Paul ("the way I do the finishing can, in my opinion, never match a professional spray job", etc, etc) but Allighatt0r refused to be put off. So I'd better source some moss green ink, then... I'll let you all know how I get on with it... Thank you, Allighatt0r for the project and, in advance, for your patience Andy Edited October 9, 2014 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitrobot Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Nice one! I shall be checking this thread hourly for updates. I had to cringe at that hand-painted headstock, though.. ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Looking forward to this - I'm always really happy to see a Westone getting some attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thunder Jets! I've had 2 - nice basses - lightweight, superb necks, 22frets... look forward to see how this develops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Wahey! Thanks Andy, it was a pleasure meeting you yesterday, thanks very much for the tea and the warm welcome! It was really nice to sit down and talk things through. By all means, call me Bryan rather than Allighatt0r, it might save you a bit of typing time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thanks, Bryan and all! I'm quite excited by this project (as I am with all of these types of project). I am plowing my way through writing a 72 page report at the moment for the day job...the downside of the overseas trips... but hopefully this evening I'll be able to start have a closer look at what we've got. Bryan's and my view when we were looking at the headstock yesterday evening, is that the original headstock is probably behind the added gunk. In a 'safe' spot, I'll scrape a little off with a one-sided razor blade and see and see what condition it's in. The body will have to wait for the weekend...it usually involves a heatgun and lots of smells that Mrs Rogers, for some inexplicable reason, seems to object to in the house! I will, nevertheless, be able to strip the bass down ready to start. Bryan and I talked quite a bit about his colour preference and there's some ink that is a possibility of being the right shade already on order I'll keep everyone updated (but don't hold your breath time-wise ) Andy p.s - Yes 'Bryan' is easier...tthere's a llott of ll's and tt's in tthatt tthere user name of yours, Allighatt0r! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Trouble is, she's there, looking at me like a seductress. Hang it - I've done 50 pages of the report... ...so over a cup of coffee, I've just had a scrape at the back and front of the headstock to see what's under the crud. Mainly good news...I think. As suspected, the black and varnish is just over the original headstock. Why? - not sure other than maybe because a previous owner was painting the neck black and wanted it to match? The weird thing is that they clearly either masked off the logo or coated it all then scraped it off that area, but in doing so, scored some deep cuts around it (and a few random ones around it). The good news is that the logo is fine - protected by the thick original varnish: You can see the deep scalpel or knife scores in this shot here: No big problem. The original varnish on Westones is thick enough for this to be able to be sanded down safely past the score mark depth. The serial number area is even better. This: ...is hiding this: I THINK that the crack you can see down the headstock is in the original varnish only - certainly there is no sign of a crack when you look at the top of the headstock where the paint has come off. You never know - there maybe some horrors the previous owner was trying to cover up , but I think it unlikely...and it's looking better already . Ooops - coffee break over. Back on our heads Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) You have the same sort of self control as I do! (Which reminds me, I should be working rather than reading about this!) I think the Thunder Jets came with a black neck, can you see where Mr Bodgejob's dodgy headstock finish ends on the back of the headstock? Edited October 10, 2014 by allighatt0r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 [quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1412954106' post='2573647'] You have the same sort of self control as I do! (Which reminds me, I should be working rather than reading about this!) I think the Thunder Jets came with a black neck, can you see where Mr Bodgejob's dodgy headstock finish ends on the back of the headstock? [/quote] Hi, Bryan I had 'another cup of coffee'... The initial scraping was with my thumbnail. Over the second cup of coffee, I got a much more effective non-scratch scraper out - a Dunlop 0.6mm pick (don't you just love the zen potential?) 10 mins and I've got this far: There's still a bit of varnish over the logo and the varnish is tougher around the neck area but I am pretty sure the whole neck has been repainted as well as revarnished. Certainly it was originally a black neck - otherwise the back of the headstock wouldn't be black. It might be just clear varnished at the neck but then why would they use black over the existing headstock? The stuff I've scraped off the headstock is definitely either black or clear over black. I'm not intending to take the neck down much beyond creating a decent key for the recoating, or just a smooth wire-wooled finish if you prefer that. We can discuss more as it progresses and either way, the transition from headstock to neck will look OK I'm quite happy with this so far. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 The original finish would have been satin/matt black so maybe someone wanted it to be gloss and varnished it? In which case it would have been a better job just to polish it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yeah if the finish was like my Spectrum LX it would have been satin black on the neck and headstock; subsequent wear on mine has left a gloss finish on the back of the neck. The body on mine was a two-tone finish; a gloss black body with a satin/matt central stripe which again has glossed up over the years with handling wear - though I think this only appeared on the Spectrum LX. Westone also stained the rosewood fingerboards on some models, using a deep purple colour to take the fingerboard to an almost black tone - this tends to come off over time whenever you apply anything to the rosewood such as linseed oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yes - I reckon it was simply an intention to make it gloss. I suspect whoever didn't think to just polish it or just use clear lacquer - hence the black lacquer (there are bits everywhere now in my study!) and then the need to mask off the logo and serial number. We've all done similar things in our past I'm sure... So a bit of the real job this morning. It's been dry so I thought I'd take advantage and start the body strip to see what's under there. I always start at the back! The tools I use are simple - heatgun and scraper: The blue is, I think, car paint spray, and with a bit of heat came off easily, leaving the original lacquer underneath. Again, with some heat applied, the lacquer came of reasonably easily, revealing the black underneath. The lacquer is mercifully thin...on some basses this bit of the job is very, very tough: So - what was going to be underneath it. I talked through with Bryan the possibilities of what we might find when he dropped the bass off...of which I forgot about this one... This is a bit odd, I thought, the grain's in the wrong direction. Plywood perhaps? Although it didn't feel heavy enough to be ply : There's actually nothing wrong with plywood (although, it does make for interesting challenges when you are trying to do a trans refinish!). This Epiphone LP Junior has the best tone of any of the guitars I have ever owned for 'that' tone. It's plywood: Anyway, back to the Thunder Jet - the quickest way of finding out is to strip a bit of the sides. Ahah! All is revealed: It's a technique that is used by a number of manufacturers for their entry-level guitars. I have seen it before on some Squiers. It is a quick way of getting a smooth and even finish for spraying without having to fill the body section joins. It will be the same, I am sure, on the top. The challenge (but as always, there are ways around) is that, clearly where the cutouts and arm-relief is, the veneer is cut away and as such there is a change of colour and texture. You can see it here, and also, you can see - at the very top of the curve - the additional colour difference of one of the body sections against the other. It's quite yellow: Anyway - better get back to it before the weather goes off! Thanks for looking Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) I've got on well today. Pleased with that because I now know what is there and that gives plenty of time for Bryan and I to talk through the options, and maybe try a few things, before committing how best to finish. Basically, got the main stripping completed. Still lots and lots of sanding to do to get rid of the in-grained black but no surprises from this point on. The top is as I suspected - veneer, cross grain and not covering the arm rest: The underlying wood (maybe alder, maybe basswood) is made up of four sections of differing widths. You might be able to see some of them here: The one to the right of the straplock hole is quite a bit narrower than the other three. Again, like one of the pieces you can see at the back, the unstained shade of that narrow one is quite different, as you can see at the armrest: The back will be fine as is - I usually do the back and sides in a darker shade of the top colour so it will be fine either with the manufacturer's veneer left in place or sanded off (the veneer for this kind of construction doesn't have any massive strength addition). For the front, these are the options I'll talk through with Bryan (and as I say, some of these can be tried out to see how they come out):[list] [*]Leave as is and just stain. The top will be fairly even looking other than the armrest area, but the grain will be going the 'wrong' way. [*]Remove the manufacturer's veneer. All the grain will be going the 'right' way, but there will be some shade variations for each of the four sections making up the body. [*]Apply a veneer to the top and then stain. [/list] I'll PM Bryan and we'll knock the options around. In the meantime, I've got plenty to do getting the neck looking a bit more tip-top Thanks for looking Andy Edited October 11, 2014 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 You won't know what that veneer is hiding - might be some fairly large 'faults' in the wood (cracks/knots?) but if you do go down the route of adding a new veneer top you can make it more visually pleasing (grain direction and inherent figuring). According to the Westone site the Thunder jet basses are solid alder. http://www.westone.info/thunderjetbass.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hi Howie You are right in that you never know what is under there but, as it is done as a mass production method rather than to specifically hide anything, it has every chance of being OK. The problem is more likely is the major shade differences of the body sections - particularly as the pieces are not symmetrical or the same widths Once I've got the stain, I can do a trial as it is, then if that is not great, take off the veneer and see what they looks like. If that still isn't great, I've already shown Bryan what I think would be a fabulous veneer. I always get excited with these projects, but I'm super-excited about this one. :-) Thanks for the link! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitrobot Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I can't believe you got that done so quick! It took me a couple of days with a heatgun to strip my '85 Spectrum GT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 [quote name='alittlebitrobot' timestamp='1413055316' post='2574606'] I can't believe you got that done so quick! It took me a couple of days with a heatgun to strip my '85 Spectrum GT. [/quote] Hi, alittlebitrobot They were light coatings as far as these things go - the second one and the original. Some of the ones in the past have taken me a week!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 With a new veneer it would end up along the lines of the Westone Paduak, a 6 string high end guitar they made. Pic nicked off t'net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Talking to Bryan, and both of us impressed with the photo you have posted, PaulS, I think we are going to head down the veneer route. There is such a lot of choice, I'm sure it will take the two of us a fair time to home in on the best option - it could be straight wood-wood, or something quite different. I've posted some tips and tricks to Bryan to help start the process but thought the subject might be of interest to some of you here. Here's an extract: [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"The next factor is colour (determined by wood type): the darker colours will not stain well. but will darken and look fabulous with just a clear finish. The lighter ones will stain fine. If you still want to go for green, you need to be looking at one of the lighter ones (around the shade of the quilt maple or beech). North American Burl Walnut can get pretty dark and is best left unstained. Same with mahogany, paduak, etc.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The next choice is then the figuring - that is, figuring that is even to create just 'texture' or major figuring which becomes the defining feature.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Some examples are below, from some of the veneers I have in my loft, but the principles are the same for the many varieties you sometimes see for sale:[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This is called 'fiddleback' and I think I remember it is mahogany. With this you would just varnish/oil. It would darken to a rich brown with distinct but even figuring....[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]You could stain it, but it would be much much darker than the similar patterned but much lighter 'flamed maple' that you might see on, say a Gibson Les Paul[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This one below is a darkish maple - this you could stain and it gives you texture rather than major figuring:[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It's what I used on the turquoise 'competition' 6-string:[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The one above, or something similar, would stain just fine.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Then you head towards the highly figured. Again, maple can be figured and light in colour. Burl Maple would come out something like this (this is real wood but veneer would come out similar):[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Then you have the highly figured. For example, North American Burr Walnut starts like this:[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]...which, with clear varnish turns out like this:[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]...or this...[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]which turns out (colour-wise) something like this:[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/font][/color] Hope that is of general interest. In the meantime, this simply make this project even more exciting Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 What an awesome amount of info and pictures, I'm not being sarcastic when I say i didn't realise wood could be quite this exciting. I've managed to find a german website with a huge array of different veneers, and just managed to spend 90 minutes looking through a lot of them. I've just sent a PM to Andy with a few of the ones that caught my eye. I'd like to keep the green stain aspect of the project, as that's what I pictured in my head before getting in touch with Andy. I also am more keen on an even textured veneer, rather than something with major figuring. Although the figuring could look very cool, and you can call me vain if you like, but I won't feel comfortable playing AC/DC, Led Zep, Iron Maiden et al. on something that resembles a posh coffee table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Sharman Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Andy works his Westone magic again! Watching this with interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hi, Chris! It's an exciting one. We're going for veneer on the front AND the back, stained green with a very dark green sides, back cutout and transition. Still a lot of decisions to be made - and I'm sure plenty of challenges along the way - but I have a good feeling how it's going to turn out Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) [quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1413153638' post='2575402'] Although the figuring could look very cool, and you can call me vain if you like, but I won't feel comfortable playing AC/DC, Led Zep, Iron Maiden et al. on something that resembles a posh coffee table [/quote] With this one, me and the band do the gig, then pop it on the floor and serve supper off it Edited October 14, 2014 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 [quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1413291520' post='2576762'] With this one, me and the band do the gig, then pop it on the floor and serve supper off it [/quote] I know you're pulling my leg, there's no mug ring stains in the varnish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 [quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1413297584' post='2576834'] I know you're pulling my leg, there's no mug ring stains in the varnish! [/quote] We use a tablecloth, as you should when serving off a fine piece of furniture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.9ad672bb8b84505709f76b39c8c256ec.gif)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.