FuNkShUi Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 We've been asked to provide one of these for a gig. Never been asked before, so I don't know much about them. Is it compulsory as a gigging band to get one? If so, what's the best way to get one? Any info appreciated, because as I said, I know nothing about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnut62 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just got PL for my function band today. Google AMPband for best deal.... £79 for membership and £10m PL for one year. It's not compulsory, but is advisable and will reassure corporate clients and venues alike. PAT testing all the bands gear is a good idea too. Get a bloke down to a rehearsal to do it and make sure band bring all their equipment; this should cost less than £100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's a copy of your public liability insurance they want to see. No it's not compulsory but if the venue want you to have it to appear at their gig then thats a condition of the booking. It's not dear these days and quite wise to have PL insurance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Ok thanks Yeh all our gear is PAT tested already. I'll look into the PL then. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapbassSteve Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 +1 for AMPband. As my band have got more and more weddings and corporate stuff we've had to provide more and more copies of PLI certs. Also it's great peace of mind in case some drunken whopper knocks over one of our speakers onto a nearby Ming Vase or Bugatti Veyron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Haha yeh fair point. We shall look into it next practice!! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddBass Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Join the Musicians Union = FREE PLI + FREE Instrument Insurance + FREE Legal advice (Free = inclusive ) Very worthwhile joining Edited October 16, 2014 by five-string.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 we use AMPband and I know a lot of others that do. But I don't know anyone who's put it to the test with a clam. Do any of you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'll have to look into the musicians union. Sounds good!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 MU is good, but it only covers your share of the liability. So unless everyone is a member, you only have part cover Thats why its free. You can get decent PL for around £65 a year, might be less than band members x MU membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 There are many other reasons for joining the MU, not simply 'free cover'. [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 List some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 [quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1413483886' post='2578803'] +1 for AMPband. As my band have got more and more weddings and corporate stuff we've had to provide more and more copies of PLI certs. Also it's great peace of mind in case some drunken whopper knocks over one of our speakers onto a nearby Ming Vase or Bugatti Veyron [/quote] I can't see how it can be your fault if some 'drunken whopper' knocks over your speakers. But personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past these days so I guess insurance is increasingly necessary. Not that my band has any. Nor do we PAT test anything. Last of the rock n roll rebels us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1413540502' post='2579247'] List some [/quote] [url="http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/join-the-mu/benefits/"]MU advantages...[/url] Partial extract... [quote][size=4]The full range of benefits:[/size] — Experienced staff & Officials — Nationwide Regional Offices — Dedicated helplines — Careers & business advice — Contract Advisory Service — Industry lists & leaflets — Campaigns & lobbying — Specialist Sections — Networking opportunities — MU website — Membership Directory — The Musician journal — Public Liability Insurance cover — Exclusive insurance schemes — Instrument protection — Health & Safety — Lifelong Learning — Courses, seminars & workshops — Personal injury package — Benevolent assistance — Medical hotline — Legal assistance — Partnership Advisory Service — Fee recovery & dispute resolution — Salary & rate negotiation — Contracts & Specimen Agreements — Consent forms — Rights protection — Media & session specialists — Fee collection & distribution — Tax Saving Guide — Pension schemes — Works Registration Service — MU Diary — Discount schemes — MU merchandise[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnut62 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1413541068' post='2579258'] I can't see how it can be your fault if some 'drunken whopper' knocks over your speakers. But personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past these days so I guess insurance is increasingly necessary. Not that my band has any. Nor do we PAT test anything. Last of the rock n roll rebels us [/quote] what if the drunken whopper is in your band?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well, in that case it would be HIS fault wouldn't it? But it's a good point. At which point does playing in a band expose you to some sort of joint liability? I certainly don't have any contractual agreements with my 'band' and there is no paperwork that defines the formal existence of our band as any sort of legal entity . . . or are such things implied somehow? When does a 'band' become a separate legal entity rather than a few individual musicians who happen to be playing together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thats a very good question. We dont have PL or PAT yet but we are looking into it. I always neatly tape down wires and put my guitar cases back in the car or well out of the way but our drummer sees no problem with leaving empty drum boxes all over the place resulting in lots of trip hazards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapbassSteve Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1413549987' post='2579424'] Well, in that case it would be HIS fault wouldn't it? But it's a good point. At which point does playing in a band expose you to some sort of joint liability? I certainly don't have any contractual agreements with my 'band' and there is no paperwork that defines the formal existence of our band as any sort of legal entity . . . or are such things implied somehow? When does a 'band' become a separate legal entity rather than a few individual musicians who happen to be playing together? [/quote] In my case we're set up as a Ltd. company as we turn over enough every month to make this our fulltime job(but luckily we're just under the VAT threshold so still qualify for AMPband cover)- and unfortunately if sed 'drunken whopper'(we've dealt with a few- one fell over backwards onto our stage once and caused around £200 of damage to a ukulele and our banner) were to say fall over and pull one of our speakers down on top of him/herself for example, they'd be in a position to sue us(what an age we live in ) as a company for leaving the speaker in a position where they could fall over and bring it down on top of themselves. Of course it'd be entirely their fault, but they could argue that we weren't sensitive to the fact that there would be people about under the influence around and therefore didn't cover everything in bubble wrap etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes, I can see that if the band is operating as a well-defined legal entity in its own right then there must be some collective responsibility (though, as individuals, are you employees or directors or shareholders, or a mixture? Presumably these would affect your personal liabilities. From a "Bandname Ltd" perspective, perhaps if anyone did sue the band and there was no insurance, then the band entity could be bankrupted and forced into liquidation.. Although even this might not absolve the members from any personal liability. What a minefield! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The top and bottom is, No win no fee is over. You now have what is called a conditional fee agreement. Now walk in to any solicitors office and ask if you have a case to sue. The first thing any solicitor will want to know is who is paying and how. If the people you are trying to sue have no insurance, then you will now be asked to stick £5000 bond down just to investigate the claim. Then it gets expensive, the chances of getting awarded less than your legal fees are now huge. The bonus of this is PLI insurance has got very cheap now that you pay your own legal fees for suing. Solicitors are not interested in the work as there is no guaranteed money in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1413541556' post='2579266'] [url="http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/join-the-mu/benefits/"]MU advantages...[/url] Partial extract... [/quote] So nothing people have managed without then for years upon years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1413565560' post='2579706'] So nothing people have managed without then for years upon years. [/quote] ... and may continue to do without, hoping to never have to need any of the services. One may hope; that's free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Thanks everyone. Lots of good points raised. We have a gig tonight, so I'll show the boys this thread and we will decide from there. Hopefully no Bugattis or Ming vases in tonight's location Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassintheface Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 [quote name='five-string.co.uk' timestamp='1413484641' post='2578818'] Join the Musicians Union = FREE PLI + FREE Instrument Insurance + FREE Legal advice (Free = inclusive ) Very worthwhile joining [/quote] This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1413549987' post='2579424'] But it's a good point. At which point does playing in a band expose you to some sort of joint liability? I certainly don't have any contractual agreements with my 'band' and there is no paperwork that defines the formal existence of our band as any sort of legal entity . . . or are such things implied somehow? When does a 'band' become a separate legal entity rather than a few individual musicians who happen to be playing together? [/quote] If it's a paid gig, and the band as a whole is being paid a fee (rather than each member being paid individually) you are likely to be operating as a partnership so far as the law is concerned. You don't need a formal partnership agreement. The partnership would be implied from the fact that you are sharing the fee. As such each band member would be jointly and severally liable for the whole of any claim. In other words, the injured punter could sue any one of you for the full amount. The other thing to remember is that in practice, what is often likely to happen is that the injured member of the public will sue the venue in the first instance. They are the easiest target, as the claimant's solcitiors can be pretty well sure that they will be insured, and the venue is likely to be liable under the Occupiers Liability legislation. The venue (or more accurately the venue's own PL insurers) will then pursue the band for a contribution. That's precisely why the venue will ask to see evidence of your PL cover - in short, their insurers probably require that so that they in turn can be sure there is an insurer in place to meet any contribution claim. Personally I get cover through Music Guard - that covers my instruments for theft and accidental damage but also provides competively priced PL cover. Two birds with one stone. Edited October 23, 2014 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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