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Frets, why so big?


MoonBassAlpha
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It has struck me recently the frets don't really need to be anywhere near as high as they are to fulfil their function on a bass.
I totally get why they are like this on a guitar as it helps a lot in fretting clean chords and digging in on big bends, but on bass, I'm not so sure.
I have smaller frets on my Sei and find them comfortable to play.
Has anyone taken their frets right down to nearly nothing and found them preferable/usable?

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I can think of two reasons why frets are the width and height usually found on basses; firstly you can get away with dressing them a few times and not run out of metal and secondly I suppose you can get away with being less accurate in finger placement in order to get the string cleanly in contact with the fret - if they were low you'd likely have more of a struggle if you stretch to get a note and then need to have your finger right up against the fret, otherwise the string could be in contact with the fingerboard itself.

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Dingwall think the same, the frets are [i]tiny[/i] on the Lee Sklar signature.

It puts me off, to be honest. Whether true or not, it just makes me think that a refret will be needed sooner rather than later after a few dresses.

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[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1413996977' post='2584658']
Dingwall think the same, the frets are [i]tiny[/i] on the Lee Sklar signature.

It puts me off, to be honest. Whether true or not, it just makes me think that a refret will be needed sooner rather than later after a few dresses.
[/quote]

I think that's a Lee Sklar thing rather than a Dingwall thing. Didn't he have mandolin fretwire fitted on his old mongrel bass?
I find I quite like small frets, though more vintage Fender size than mandolin size. As a flatwound player I'm not worried about wear.

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My Sadowsky Metro has pretty big frets. At least it does compared to my old Precision, which barely has any. It took a bit to get used to if I am honest. I'm not so much sure that the size of the frets matters so much to actual fretwork on the instrument. Essentially I don't think that the size of the frets is a deal breaker for me.

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1414000128' post='2584715']
What are these 'frets' of which you speak..? :unsure:[size=4] [/size]
[/quote]:D

I have 5 basses, 3 of which are fretless and the frets on my 63 P are tiny and low. The frets on my Ibby seem like corrugated iron by comparison.

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[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1413999632' post='2584702']


I think that's a Lee Sklar thing rather than a Dingwall thing. Didn't he have mandolin fretwire fitted on his old mongrel bass?
I find I quite like small frets, though more vintage Fender size than mandolin size. As a flatwound player I'm not worried about wear.
[/quote]

As far as I'm aware all Dingwalls use banjo frets. They began using them because Sklar wanted them on his signature. I know on my AB1 the frets are tiny. To be honest, I feel quite uneasy using jumbo frets now!

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[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Banjo frets on all Canadian Dingwalls (not sure about combustion), however the Lee Sklar has mandolin frets, which yes are even smaller.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]But, small frets all round indeed.[/font][/color]

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[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1414010574' post='2584897']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Banjo frets on all Canadian Dingwalls (not sure about combustion), however the Lee Sklar has mandolin frets, which yes are even smaller.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]But, small frets all round indeed.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Ah! I thought it was just banjo frets on his Sig as well. I do enjoy the small frets though.

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I was used to the massive frets on my MIM Precision until I swapped to a Warmoth Telebass neck that came with really skinny frets. At first I thought I'd have to refret as I wouldn't be able to play with frets so small, but it's actually much more comfortable for me.

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[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1413994027' post='2584578']
It has struck me recently the frets don't really need to be anywhere near as high as they are to fulfil their function on a bass.
I totally get why they are like this on a guitar as it helps a lot in fretting clean chords and digging in on big bends, but on bass, I'm not so sure.
I have smaller frets on my Sei and find them comfortable to play.
Has anyone taken their frets right down to nearly nothing and found them preferable/usable?
[/quote]

I take it you mean top to bottom size not width?

I prefer both thin (vintage mandolin size) and low frets. I've had both my basses (Squier JV, Fender Roadworn) fret dressed and taken the fret heights right down. I was inspired to do this by a Custom Shop P bass I tried which was not much better than my Roadworn, the fret work being the main difference.

I dislike Jumbo frets, and I find high frets uncomfortable to play. The benefits I find with low frets are obviously a ridiculously low action (which I love) and the ability to gain way more left hand control. The difference in muting, open notes, ghost notes etc is all way easier to control. Fretting a note is a very small movement and this makes everything easier for me and much less of a strain importantly. If you've ever had aches in your right hand/arm you should probably consider this!

That and a decently rolled fingerboard and I'm happy! Surprising how few manufacturers offer this though, I guess it's labour intensive and expensive. Dingwall are out of my price range but the Lee Skylar comment above just made my ears prick up!

Not really worried about refrets- if I have to pay £90-odd to have a refret in 5 years time so what, I'd rather have a sweet playing bass.

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Yes, I did say height in the first line. I'm very tempted to give it a try, but this particular bass has a very shallow break angle over the nut, so would almost certainly require some kind of string tree on the g and d.
Also, will crowning very low frets be next to impossible, they're quite wide frets?
I hadn't really considered this,but frets get wider the lower you take them....

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[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1414010574' post='2584897']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Banjo frets on all Canadian Dingwalls (not sure about combustion), however the Lee Sklar has mandolin frets, which yes are even smaller.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Banjo frets on the Combustion as well.

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  • 2 months later...

Apologies for the zombie thread resurrection...

I have a MIJ Fender P, with vintage frets. It plays fine but the finish on the neck has some odd wear/checking. Take a look:

[attachment=180114:7221D891-94C1-45C0-9962-9F0AE10C48B3_zpsajxwmpi5.jpg]

[attachment=180115:062_zpsbdd887b2.jpg]

[attachment=180116:058_zpsa77877d4.jpg]

I think the minor damage to the rear of the neck is honest play & resting on improvised "stands" wear, however I think the odd lifting/checking of the lacquer at the fret ends is a sign of poor lacquering during the finishing [u]OR[/u] a refret job. If it is a refret it was a full refret as all the fret ends have the same weird discolouration due to finish lifting. EDIT: The nut has the same finish issues.

I'm going to refret it with medium jumbo frets (fender type) and refinish in a poly spray.
I really like the guitar but prefer medium frets (these are skinner and lower, partly as their worn, but also 'coz they're just smaller).

I find the fret width immaterial, as long as the fretboard & frets have a decent roundover & bevel respectively. Fretting with minimal effort depends on the action (bottom of string to top of fret). If the frets are very level under string tension, ultra low action with only the slightest buzz should be achievable across the board.

I imagine a large part of the preference for shorter frets is a preference for thinner necks (front to back).
Luckily the P bass has a nice slim neck and the medium frets (actually medium jumbo) should only have a slight effect.

Edited by PlungerModerno
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I think this is quite an important and overlooked subject in terms of playing comfort.

My preference is for wide, low frets and a rolled fingerboard. That way the bass feels great and you get a minimum of buzzing when playing. It feels like the strings are 'melting' into the neck.

I have two basses with thin, small frets and they are much more difficult to play without buzzes. They also feel spiky and sharp on the edge of the fingerboard as they're thinner.

I would discourage anyone from banjo frets and thinner wire frets. Go for wiide as possible and low as possible.

Edited by Spoombung
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[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1420449043' post='2649357']
I think this is quite an important and overlooked subject in terms of playing comfort.

My preference is for wide, low frets and a rolled fingerboard. That way the bass feels great and you get a minimum of buzzing when playing. It feels like the strings are 'melting' into the neck.

I have two basses with thin, small frets and they are much more difficult to play without buzzes. They also feel spiky and sharp on the edge of the fingerboard as they're thinner.

I would discourage anyone from banjo frets and thinner wire frets. Go for wiide as possible and low as possible.
[/quote]

Interesting . . . I hear you on the carefully rolled fingerboard. I converted a bass to fretless - turned out grand but I didn't roll the fingerboard. Even without frets it matters. I need to roll those edges, the bass (a 5 string Cort) had hard corners on the fretboard - and adding a superglue finish to the playing surface didn't help things! at least for the unrolled fingerboard edges & playing comfort. Learned a lot getting it done though.

Back to frets - I can't say I notice that much difference when it comes to fret width - at least when it comes to the fret ends feel. The fret end bevel angle (say 20 - 40 degrees) . . . plus a carefully softened edge where the bevel meets the fret cross-section (at both the tops and sides of each fret). e.g:

Is enough to make playing slick and easy - with none of that ugly sharpness.

As for buzzing, and a "perfect handful" of a bass neck . . . I think it's a combination of setup, neck contour, fingerboard radius, and neck finish - satin is my preferred feel!
you are absolutely welcome to disagree or agree as you please. A fast neck to one person is a cramped twig to another... YMMV!!!

Edited by PlungerModerno
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The fastest neck of any bass I have is the dingwall, which has the very low frets:

L2R - Dingwall, Ibanez 505, Squier CV-P

[URL=http://s405.photobucket.com/user/alienrat/media/necks_zps1f8ae42e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp133/alienrat/necks_zps1f8ae42e.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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Cool shots of the action -

3 popular & influential bass designs covering a huge range of the instruments history.
Looking at the pictures, and knowing a little about the basses in question - it's two 5's and a 4. The P is shown slightly closer up (unless it's got a super heavy E string, or is BEAD tuned...).

So it should be in the middle as fret sizes go (as the frets appear larger as the image is more magnified?). Soundgear should be big (Jumbo?) while the Dingwall is at the smaller end of the scale.

Sherlock Holmes act over.


As far as I know the dingwall being the fastest feeling neck is more to do with profile, thickness & width, and action and setup. One of the advantages I'm interested in (and why I'd be keen to explore fan fretted instruments) is to get more even excursion of the string - a 37" Low B is bound to be tighter, and need a little less clearance from the frets (which should, if my assumptions are correct, allow lower action & less neck relief for the same buzzless performance).

I'm no expert. I'd need to test a lot of this out with great care to be fully confident in this. YMMV.

P.S. The Dingwall "Rosewood" is gorgeous - Morado is it???

I did a quick search and found a Super P with an exquisite board in the for sale section... Pics in the post: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/251265-reduced-to-l1850-dingwall-super-p-4-string/page__p__2649701__hl__dingwall__fromsearch__1#entry2649701"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/251265-reduced-to-l1850-dingwall-super-p-4-string/page__p__2649701__hl__dingwall__fromsearch__1#entry2649701[/url]

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[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1413996739' post='2584653']
I suppose it's a matter of taste - [size=4]I much prefer low frets.[/size]
[/quote]

Me to. My old P has been referetted at somepoint with wide frets which are very low. Sublime with flats, my plucking fingers barely have to move.

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