PJ pickup balance question. Also help me choose ;-)

[sirmuppet]

Hey guys.

I have a couple of basses with the PJ configuration. I want to go for noiseless (stacked) J pickups so I thought about replacing the P pickup as well and get a nice balanced set.

I know from previous posts that buying say a Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound P-Bass pickup and J-Bass pickup will yield a stronger sound from the P-Bass pickup. Obviously that is due to a P pickup being naturally more powerful in output to the J pickup and it being further down the neck where it gets a stronger signal from more string vibration.

I hope my understanding of the above is correct, if not feel free to correct me .

So, since I'm replacing both pickups, how do I choose a set that are better matched or balanced with each other? Currently I find that when I put my J pickup in with the P pickup that it brings the overall volume down slightly and gives a slight more treble to the sound. I've looked at the specs on Seymour Duncans site but to me the SPB3 12.5k should be higher output than the SPB2 22.4k, but it doesn't look that way, am I missing something?

If you guys need more info from me just ask.

Thanks

[HowieBass]

The SPB2 compared to the SPB3 can be considered to be overwound which gives it a higher output - it's described as 'hot'. The coils have more windings hence the higher impedance. The SPB2 will be louder but the tonal characteristics differ, it'll have a thicker, more midrange tone compared to the SPB3. You can vary the string to pickup distance by raising or lowering the pickups in order to change how loud each is in relation to the other though this will also affect tonality to a degree.

[sirmuppet]

Gotcha. So really there's no way to tell how well 2 pickups will mix from the specs on their site?

[HowieBass]

I think how well pickups mix is a matter of experimentation and personal preference - if matched volumes between P and J pickups is important and currently you're finding the P dominates the J adversely then maybe you need a hot J. Bridge pickups always have more treble and typically have to be raised compared to neck pickups to get the same volume. Combining the neck and bridge pickups usually gives a mid-scooped sound which is probably why you hear some volume drop. I imagine a hot J will likely have more mids and less treble than an old-school J. Hopefully another BCer who's already played around with Seymour Duncans in a PJ configuration can offer their experience on this.

[hamfist]

The SPB-1 is by far the best SD P pickup for a PJ configuration IMO (compared to the 2 and 3). It is a great pickup in it's own right but importantly, it has a significantly lower output and will match so much better with a J pickup.
Unfortunately SD's stacked J pickups are not as high output as some other hum-cancelling J design, and are IMO rather lacklustre compared to others tonally. IMO, Dimarzio's Ultrajazz bridge pickup is THE pickup to beat for a bridge pickup in a PJ. Great tone and, importantly, high output.
Sometimes the figures are misleading. Hum-cancelling designs can be either side by side (i.e. a coil for the E and A strings and a coil for the D and G strings) or one on top of the other (I believe SD ones are like this. Form my experience the side-by-side designs give a much better output compared to the stats than the other design. This is not just something I have noticed myself, but have read others observing too.

So when choosing a PJ config, I would always go with a more "vintage" output P pickup and a side-by-side higher output J pickup. As has been said earlier the pickup heights will make a huge difference in balancing the volumes and generally you will need the P pickup a fraction lower in a PJ config than you might on a P pickup solo bass (if you want to balance the pickup volumes that is).
And don't be sucked in by the teenagers who all seem to think that a higher output pickup is somehow "better" than a lower output one. What a load of old tosh. Lower output from pickup = a slight tweak on your amp's gain knob, that is all. IMO, for whatever style you play you will generally get a more balanced (frequency-wise) tone with a slightly lower output pickup. Mr Fender did know what he was doing back then.

[sirmuppet]

Well said guys.

Hamfist, you talk a lot of sense. Currently I have a P-bass special and the P pickup in that is a Bare Knuckle 58. Sounds great, but the lower output jazz pickup doesn't match it. In my Hoppus bass I have the SPB-3, sounds great but I have to turn the volume down otherwise it distorts most amps on a normal setting (that I or most others set it up for their basses), just too high output but does sound great.

I would want to go down the hum cancelling route. Was looking into it. One thing I did notice was a lot of people who had gone for Pj config had issues with a split Jazz pickup rather than a stacked one. Their issues were that a split one has phase issues with the P pickup. You come across anything like that?

I'll check out the Dimarzio one. Though I would like to get the same brand and am a bit put off by Dimarzio as they have a lack of P bass pickups.

Thanks.

[molan]

I'd be seriously tempted to go for a properly matched pair from a single manufacturer. I've had too many matching issues in the past to try for a mixed set.

Most recent one was that a, quite expensive, set had a much weaker bridge pickup and it was no only overpowered by the P but the blend also totally failed to work. It was literally bridge only, neck only or both on full. Slightest tweak of the blend knob away from centre and the other pickup just disappeared from the mix

I'm going to fit an aguilar set instead as I really like their P pickup sound

Edited December 3, 2014 by molan

[hamfist]

[quote name='sirmuppet' timestamp='1417625039' post='2622400']
. Their issues were that a split one has phase issues with the P pickup. You come across anything like that?
[/quote]

No I've not had any issues like that.

Personally, I now veer away from hum-cancelling J pickups. I feel too restricted and for me, the hum I do get is not at a level that I really even notice in use.

My personal budget favourite pairing is the Wilkinson Ceramic P bass pickup (their cheaper one) and a Tonerider J bridge pickup. An awesome and super-toneful pairing, all totalling about £50. That is the pairing I put in every PJ bass now.
If you want named brands then Molan's suggestion of a manufacturers matched pair is good. But, then again, they are mostly not hum-cancelling. I love SD's SPB-1 but I think SD don't offer a ideal J pickup to match with it, certainly not a hum-cancelling one. In contrast, Dimarzio's Ultrajazz J pickup is cracking but all their P pickups are too high output to match it well IMO.

There are a lot of pairings I would like to try at some point (if I ever have the money to spare). There are many great testimonies about EMG's Geezer Butler PJ pair. The Aguilar Pj pair also, and on and on.

[jeid]

Nothing to really add, but thanks for the great info, I was about to ask a similar question to the OP as I've been trying to decide if the problem I'm having with my JP was the SPB3 and the STK-J2B. I think the SPB3 might be a bit hot for me so I'm going to look at swapping it with something else. Cheers!

[Noisyjon]

I'm currently using the Nordstrand P/J SE set and that's a good match to my ear.
Also had the SD set of Hot Stack Jazz with the SPB-1 and that was good too.

[ColinB]

I use the Wizard P/J set and I'm very pleased with it. I see Hot-rod pickups are doing a higher output set so I don't think they're the same. They might wind you a pair of lower output ones if you ask.

[hamfist]

[quote name='jeid' timestamp='1418772444' post='2633321']
the problem I'm having with my JP was the SPB3 and the STK-J2B. I think the SPB3 might be a bit hot for me so I'm going to look at swapping it with something else. Cheers!
[/quote]

Yup, your analysis is good. THe SPB-3 is way too hot to balance with the STK-J2B. tHe SPB-1 is, however, a pretty decent match if you want to stick with DUncans.

[jeid]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1418805476' post='2633444']
Yup, your analysis is good. THe SPB-3 is way too hot to balance with the STK-J2B. tHe SPB-1 is, however, a pretty decent match if you want to stick with DUncans.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's my plan. I was playing my SX Precision last night which has the Fender US Standard pickup in it and it was much more to my liking. So I was thinking of getting one of them or the SPB-1 as you say. I'll figure it out after Christmas, the bank balance has already taken quite a hit this month.

[dannybuoy]

Check out the EMG Geezer Butler set. People are raving about these pickups and I've not seen one bad review. The bridge pickup is noiseless and higher than usual output to match with the P too.

[jeid]

Sorry to hijack, any idea if the STK-J2B would work well with a Fender Original P-Bass pickup?

[hamfist]

[quote name='jeid' timestamp='1418852182' post='2634164']
Sorry to hijack, any idea if the STK-J2B would work well with a Fender Original P-Bass pickup?
[/quote]

Yes, the Fender orig P bass pickup is relatively low output so should match up OK with the STK-J2B

[Delberthot]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1418810496' post='2633493']
Check out the EMG Geezer Butler set. People are raving about these pickups and I've not seen one bad review. The bridge pickup is noiseless and higher than usual output to match with the P too.
[/quote]

Contemplating giving these a whirl too on my Precision

[Lozz196]

[quote name='jeid' timestamp='1418852182' post='2634164']
Sorry to hijack, any idea if the STK-J2B would work well with a Fender Original P-Bass pickup?
[/quote]
[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1418892987' post='2634424']
Yes, the Fender orig P bass pickup is relatively low output so should match up OK with the STK-J2B
[/quote]

Yep, should be fine. I put an STK-J2B in my old Aerodyne, and it really complimented the standard P pickup well, so should work great with the Fender Original.

[DarkHeart]

Entwistle PBXN/JBXN are an amazing combo for not a lot of cash.

[jeid]

Just to report in, I got a Seymour Duncan SPB-1 in place of the SPB-3 and I'm much happier. The balance with the STK-J2B is much better and the tone when I've just got the neck pickup on is much more to my liking. Cheers!

Edited January 6, 2015 by jeid

[Marc S]

[quote name='DarkHeart' timestamp='1419960690' post='2644370']
Entwistle PBXN/JBXN are an amazing combo for not a lot of cash.
[/quote]

Nice thread this
I've now got 2 basses with PJ arrangement of pickups
One being a Squier P (Indonesian) which I put a fretless neck on
Love the sound - its's so flexible
But I did wonder about putting some Entwistle pickups on,
as they're cheap to buy, but I've heard a lot of good comments about them....

Just the other day, I bought a P bass, with Mex body, Mighty Mite Neck
and a PJ pickup arrangement. The Pickup in the Bridge position,
is a Bartolini - and the bass sounds absolutely awesome!
really happy with it - I only got it cos I was going to do exactly that PJ mod,
to my Squire CV 60's P

To my mind, the PJ pickup arrangement is ideal - and I wonder why most people aren't wanting to do this
Nice to hear all your thoughts & experiences folks

Hmmm, should I put Entwistles on my fretless??

Edited January 13, 2015 by Marc S

[DarkHeart]

Yes

[wateroftyne]

I'm on a similar quest, and I [i]think[/i] I'm going to go down the Aguilar route.