Volume

[Kevin Dean]

I was doing a pub gig last night with a new guitarist , He was using a Fender Twin reverb all valve thingy . The on stage volume was absolutely deafening , After the gig He said that he couldn't go any lower to get the sound He needed to get ? I use a PA so I can have a comftable volume & let the PA do the work . If that's true I don't care how good it sounded to the punters I play for a hobby & you're supposed to enjoy hobbies .

[bigd1]

Classic excuse for guitarist, can't get i good sound if I set my amp any lower.................... buy a new amp, pedal or sack him and get a real musician instead !!

[discreet]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1418557605' post='2631102']
Fender Twin reverb...
[/quote]

Great-sounding guitar amps, but IIRC these are 85 watts or thereabouts, which is OK for stadia but not a pub. Even 30 watts is too much for guitar in a pub situation - 15-20 watts will do the job perfectly and with power to spare.

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1418557605' post='2631102']
He said that he couldn't go any lower to get the sound He needed to get?
[/quote]

Bullplop.

I've seen guitarists use 100W Marshall stacks in pubs, which apart from being plain stupid is also grossly irresponsible!

Edited December 14, 2014 by discreet

[Number6]

Our guitarist has a 1977 Traynor 2x12 80 watt amp that i don't ever think he's played past volume level 3.....above that the stage volume would be just too much.

Plus the thing is so heavy we can hardly lift it onto the stage anyway lol

Edited December 14, 2014 by Number6

[Coilte]

I agree. I find that most pub gig bands play much too loud. If it was loud on stage, from the punters location it would sound even louder. If your guitarist cant get the sound he wants without "roof lifting" volume then he hasn't a clue how to E.Q. his sound.

My own band is not off the hook either. I notice the excess volume especially at rehearsals. The guitarist has often asked me to up the volume on my bass. I usually refuse, asking him to drop his instead.

[Les]

Age old problem. I do accept that there is a certain amount of volume required to get your sound so get a power soaker or a smaller amp.

This is what will happen, he'll be far too loud, so the drummer will start hitting things as hard as he can, you'll turn up cos' you can't hear yourself, your whole show will be ruined by howling feedback as whoever sings will be ragging the monitor system in a desperate attempt to hear themselves.

have a friendly word and explain the situation, if he doesn't get the problem sack him immediately. He will ruin the whole playing experience for everyone but himself.

By the way we are looking for a guitarist at the minute, tell him not to apply please.

Les

[Japhet]

Get him a dictionary and tell him to look up 'compromise'.

[Lozz196]

The classic guitarist saying. And in defence, higher wattage amps don`t sound as good when not pushed. So why they don`t buy a power-break often baffles me. But then it probably goes against their DNA, buying a pedal to make them quieter

[Chrismanbass]

Get him to buy one of these

[url="http://thdelectronics.com/product_page_hotplate.html"]http://thdelectronics.com/product_page_hotplate.html[/url]

it works with a fender twin cause i've seen it done (the club i work in has one in house) he needs the purple one

but yes guitards don't like being quiet something about ego or something........

[Guest MoJo]

Why do guitarists buy 50 - 100 watt amps for pub gigs? It's way too much, If they want that gritty, overdriven tone, get a 15w valve amp and wring it's neck. It'd be like rockin up to a pub gig with two SVT's and two 8x10's

[Chrismanbass]

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1418562978' post='2631164']
Why do guitarists buy 50 - 100 watt amps for pub gigs? It's way too much, If they want that gritty, overdriven tone, get a 15w valve amp and wring it's neck. It'd be like rockin up to a pub gig with two SVT's and two 8x10's
[/quote]

because all guitarists think it looks cool and their favourite guitarist uses it "so if i want to sound like x,y or z i should just buy the same amp and i'll sound just as good right?"

[Guest MoJo]

Words of wisdom from Johnny Marr

[url="http://youtu.be/imilWLFCPAA"]http://youtu.be/imilWLFCPAA[/url]

[M@23]

Maybe he needs to swap the tubes for ones that become saturated easier, or get an OD pedal to push the front end - Ibanez Tubescreamer or Boss SD1 are pretty cheap. Or accept that he needs a smaller amp for pub gigs!

Also, if the on stage sound was deafening out front it would have been horrenous and most probably way too loud for the venue!

Edited December 14, 2014 by M@23

[discreet]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1418567947' post='2631220']
Also, if the on stage sound was deafening out front it would have been horrendous and most probably way too loud for the venue!
[/quote]

Quite. Even if it's fairly robust out front there should be a relative oasis of calm on stage.
Engineers don't like tons of volume crashing about on stage, it makes their job much more difficult and you don't get a show.

Edited December 14, 2014 by discreet

[Drax]

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1418563438' post='2631175']
Words of wisdom from Johnny Marr

[media]http://youtu.be/imilWLFCPAA[/media]
[/quote]

Great clip. Whether you like Marr's music or not he always talks sense

Edited December 14, 2014 by Drax

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1418557605' post='2631102']
After the gig He said that he couldn't go any lower to get the sound He needed to get ?
[/quote]
In that case he has got the wrong equipment for the gig.

I play with a guitarist who likes his 30 watts turned up loud but he puts it at the back in the corner and facing the wall. Still gets the sound but the volume is dissipated.

[ambient]

I'd refuse to play with him, personally.

There have been bands in the past that I've played with that I've refused to rehearse with and ended up leaving with because of the frankly stupid volume levels.

Once your hearing is gone, it's gone and won't come back.

[essexbasscat]

What are the volume requirements of the venue ? are enthusiastic volume control settings likely to get a repeat booking ? or lose it ?

Does loud volume invite an audience in ? or repel them ?

Are you there to entertain an audience, or for reasons more personal to the band members ?

Is the guitarist interested in these questions and the answers to them ?

[Coilte]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1418573232' post='2631279']
What are the volume requirements of the venue ? are enthusiastic volume control settings likely to get a repeat booking ? or lose it ?

Does loud volume invite an audience in ? or repel them ?

Are you there to entertain an audience, or for reasons more personal to the band members ?

Is the guitarist interested in these questions and the answers to them ?
[/quote]


+1.

If, instead on upping the volume to match, more band members diplomatically asked the offending member to turn down, then everyone, both punters and band members, would be a lot happier.....and a lot less deaf... [size=4] [/size]

[size=4]If he refuses to turn it down....show him the door.[/size]

[ambient]

Funny, but my mom was just talking about Cilla Black, there was a trailer on TV for a programme about her. She's almost completely deaf, thanks to music being too loud.

[ezbass]

Fender Twins are great, classic amps but they are earth shattering loud. When I used to play guitar live I had a '59 Bassman reissue which was 40 watts and stupid loud, so I modded it to allow it to produce the tones I wanted at a lower output. Fender Hot Rods have the same, audience deafening quality/problem, especially the 4x10. The only answers are a smaller amp, max 30 watts, or, as has already been suggested, an attenuator like the THD. From a practical POV I'd go for a smaller amp, as the Twin, as well as being stupidly loud, is no lightweight either.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1418557605' post='2631102']
I was doing a pub gig last night with a new guitarist , He was using a Fender Twin reverb all valve thingy . The on stage volume was absolutely deafening , After the gig He said that he couldn't go any lower to get the sound He needed to get ? I use a PA so I can have a comftable volume & let the PA do the work . If that's true I don't care how good it sounded to the punters I play for a hobby & you're supposed to enjoy hobbies .
[/quote]

Those amps have a lovely sound, and they're extremely loud with the volume at 1... and heavy as a mountain.
Not the best amp for a small stage pub gig.

edit: also very directional... if it felt loud on stage, whoever happened to walk right in front of the beam of that amp would have probably felt their fillings rattle

Edited December 14, 2014 by mcnach

[mcnach]

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1418562978' post='2631164']
[b]Why do guitarists buy 50 - 100 watt amps for pub gigs?[/b] It's way too much, If they want that gritty, overdriven tone, get a 15w valve amp and wring it's neck. It'd be like rockin up to a pub gig with two SVT's and two 8x10's
[/quote]


It's funny, isn't it? We worry and spend so much money trying to reduce bulk and weight... and then, they could just waltz in with a 30W valve combo under they arm, but won't! Crazy!
I'd use a very loud Laney LC30 if I were a guitarist. I love that amp. I used to own a VC50, twin 12" combo 50W and that was so heavy and so loud... crazy. But I didn't know better those days.

[chris_b]

I get that Twin Reverbs sound great play loudly. I was playing with a cranked Twin guitarist last Wednesday. Even through my ear-plugs, he sounded very good. But it was his band to I played at his level.

If a musician in a band can't get his "sound" without being too loud for the band then he's either using the wrong amp or the wrong mind-set or both. What did the rest of the band think?

I'd tell him what the problem is and that it's his problem to fix.

[blue]

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1418561487' post='2631141']
Age old problem. I do accept that there is a certain amount of volume required to get your sound so get a power soaker or a smaller amp.

This is what will happen, he'll be far too loud, so the drummer will start hitting things as hard as he can, you'll turn up cos' you can't hear yourself, your whole show will be ruined by howling feedback as whoever sings will be ragging the monitor system in a desperate attempt to hear themselves.

have a friendly word and explain the situation, if he doesn't get the problem sack him immediately. He will ruin the whole playing experience for everyone but himself.

By the way we are looking for a guitarist at the minute, tell him not to apply please.

Les
[/quote]

I agree with Les, it's a tough call. We bring a full PA into most bars and I'm sure were to loud at times. However if done right, the PA actually can give you more control over volume than playing without one.

Our guitarists can get loud. But their better than most in terms of controlling volume.

I really think some guitarist don't get it, you can have nice low stage volume and the sound guy can send the volume and mojo into the house. In the OP case the guitarist might not have a lot of pub experience?

I use a 750 GK 100rb with a GK RBX 2 10 cab on top of an RBX 15. Way too much for a club , but I know how to use the volume knob.

volume can be dangerous, I have a friend who plaed a bar recently and they don't use a PA. They were loud according to the landlord and he told them they would never be asked back.

Blue

Pic, cool bar, Friday night

Edited December 14, 2014 by blue