notable9 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Struth. here Iam with a glass of the the red stuff sat at my PC listening to bands like Odyssey, Jocelyn Brown, etc and I cannot beleive the recording quality Im hearing. Crisp seperated bass, drums, vocals, guitar...not to much lo register synth just enough to fill out the mid range etc....what's happened to it all eh? Beats me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 someone invented the mp3...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 ha ha , have another glass, it gets even better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notable9 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 [quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1418848824' post='2634120'] ha ha , have another glass, it gets even better! [/quote] ha reckon its all I can do. Any one listen to the x factor winner on sat.....one word - mush! there I've said it. Better stop now feeling a bit wotsit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The compression on mp3/4 murders any semblance of decent reproduction. The louder you try and go, the worse it gets (I've heard stuff where the 'compression gaps' -other non-techie terms are available- actually make themselves obvious at medium volume - talking 200watts or so). CD reproduction is dodgy enough, 80s German productions and EMI seem fine, but I've got some horrendous junk from that period issued by certain majors. The 'modern' climb back to vinyl is an attempt to get closer to the original - I can tell a book load of horror stories about life on the road with trunks full of badly made 7" rubbish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 In digital Zero is Zero, anything above is distorted, on good tape, you got up to +3 db dynamic range and +5Db on really expensive chrome stuff. Similar to camera film vs digital, nobody can make a digital camera with the dynamic range of slide film yet. The down side is quite bits were noisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticktock Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Compressed digital audio files will never sound brilliant compared with uncompressed digital audio or an analogue source. Digital camera sensors now surpass film for dynamic range. It is truly marvellous. I shot transparency film for many years, 5 stop range maximum. I now have much more than that and if I had the money and upgraded to "medium format digital" it gets even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 [quote name='notable9' timestamp='1418848631' post='2634117'] Struth. here Iam with a glass of the the red stuff sat at my PC listening to bands like Odyssey, Jocelyn Brown, etc and I cannot beleive the recording quality Im hearing. Crisp seperated bass, drums, vocals, guitar...not to much lo register synth just enough to fill out the mid range etc....what's happened to it all eh? Beats me. [/quote] It was all done in professional studios using high quality, often analogue, equipment by people who knew what they were doing, not knocked up by some herbert with a music "degree" from his local "University" (technical college as was) on a laptop in his bedroom..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic_Groove Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1418858006' post='2634264'] It was all done in professional studios using high quality, often analogue, equipment by people who knew what they were doing, not knocked up by some herbert with a music "degree" from his local "University" (technical college as was) on a laptop in his bedroom..... [/quote] + 1000 and Amen to to this. Spot on Rhys Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notable9 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1418858006' post='2634264'] It was all done in professional studios using high quality, often analogue, equipment by people who knew what they were doing, not knocked up by some herbert with a music "degree" from his local "University" (technical college as was) on a laptop in his bedroom..... [/quote] [quote name='Sonic_Groove' timestamp='1418858178' post='2634268'] + 1000 and Amen to to this. Spot on Rhys Brendan [/quote] I kinda guessed this was the truth..... Edited December 17, 2014 by notable9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 [url="http://www.mcelhearn.com/music-not-sound-why-high-resolution-music-is-a-marketing-ploy/"]This article[/url] doesn't explain why music from the 80s sounds better, but it's a very good explanation of how the various digital formats affect sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Digital compression to reduce file size is nothing to do with dynamic compression Digital formats have the potential for at least as much dynamic range as vinyl Mp3s don't have to sound bad Having said all that, I was going to link to soundcloud to prove my point, but the extra compression they do when you upload a track really kills it. You can hear all manner of artifacts in the high frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Technical side aside, I think the production during a certain period was incredible including the 80s , almost like every minor piece of percussion or bass ghost note sat exactly right and not clashing with anything else, and was meant to be there. This is the opinion of a consumer not a pro. A bit before the 80s but like this ... [media]http://youtu.be/RXV9obOq7qY[/media] Edited December 18, 2014 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I have no idea about any of this, but can`t a good producer make the same sound recording on a CD as a vinyl? I would have thought with all the technology, you can make a cd or mp3 sound more like a vinyl. Or is it a case of another lost art? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1418894761' post='2634463'] Digital compression to reduce file size is nothing to do with dynamic compression ... Digital formats have the potential for at least as much dynamic range as vinyl [/quote] This is a very good point. Digital compression works by lopping the extra digital bits off; as Tom said, the primary function is to keep file sizes down (the argument being that you can't really hear the extra detail anyway so you don't lose anything in audio terms - last I knew this was still a fairly hot issue within the industry). It is completely different to audio compression (in which, theoretically at least, all the original audio detail is still there, but has it's dynamic range squashed so that - to put it fairly crudely - the quiet stuff is a bit louder and the loud stuff is a bit quieter). I can't comment on the current situation as I've been away from it for a few years now, but when last I looked it was still possible to ruin a perfectly good sound during the production sequence whatever the format. Also when I last looked digital technologies were capable of substantially better audio resolution than vinyl. I rather suspect that the current move back to vinyl has more to do with the 'character' of the reproduction than the technical quality (something that old-fart audiophiles have been banging on about for decades of course... ). Although not quite the same thing, it's related to the preference most guitarists still have for amps powered by valves (which for the record have been with us for around 70 years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 For me it's all about the loudness war, and recording stuff on laptops in people's bedrooms. The latter doesn't always apply. There's a heap of big-budget stuff out there ruined by the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1418896735' post='2634505'] ... Also when I last looked digital technologies were capable of substantially better audio resolution than vinyl... [/quote] This is a fact that many people can't accept. Mainly because, as you say, vinyl "feels" nice, it has an appealing character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fasting showman Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1418858006' post='2634264'] It was all done in professional studios using high quality, often analogue, equipment by people who knew what they were doing, not knocked up by some herbert with a music "degree" from his local "University" (technical college as was) on a laptop in his bedroom..... [/quote] Spot on. I think FM / Digital synths have had a bad impact too in some ways, I love to hear how a Prophet 5 or a minimoog can blend against a band and not obliterate their surrounding instruments. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I think it's a period where the recording equipment and techniques had been well established and refined, but just before certain sounds and production tricks which date badly became fashionable. I'm thinking of overuse of digital reverb on everything, DX7 preset synth sounds, electro-acoustic guitars recorded direct from the piezo, electric guitar and bass overly processed with 80s rack units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Digitising music inherently introduces noise as music volume is quantised (or rounded to the nearest 'step'). However the biggest impact imho is the compression 'war' where every producer tries to get their track to stand out and sound powerful. This is easily noticed in shouty TV adverts that sound so much louder than the program you've just been watching. It has the effect of squeezing all of the 'air' out of a recording Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1418895467' post='2634478'] Technical side aside, I think the production during a certain period was incredible including the 80s , almost like every minor piece of percussion or bass ghost note sat exactly right and not clashing with anything else, and was meant to be there. This is the opinion of a consumer not a pro. A bit before the 80s but like this ... [media]http://youtu.be/RXV9obOq7qY[/media] [/quote] That's because this was arranged and produced by someone who knew what he was doing having spent years in the music business before making it as a solo artist. This has the Barry White stamp all over it. Just listen to those strings. P.S. I'm just playing a vinyl copy of that Gloria Scott LP at home and the production is just fabulous. Edited December 18, 2014 by BetaFunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 There are still guys putting out quality recordings, Keb Mo, Jon Cleary, for example. And anything produced by John Porter will be a top quality recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1418900775' post='2634578'] Digitising music inherently introduces noise as music volume is quantised (or rounded to the nearest 'step')... [/quote] If you're talking about mp3 compression, fair enough, but if you're talking about CD quality, I disagree entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I think there is another point of view on this. I was studying studio recording at college/university in the 90s, and loved acid jazz music. However, I would get frustrated with how clean and clinical everything was. I got sick of hearing heavily gated snare drums tightened up to bursting! I started getting into older 70s funk where everything felt so much more real and gritty. Personally, I like recordings where it sounds like everyone was in the room together. I like to hear the fags smouldering in the ashtray and the squeak of a bass drum pedal! This did go against a lot of my lecturer's opinions on my course! What I'm trying to say is, I think a lot of the modern "poor quality" stuff may be intentionally going against the "DDD" CD dream of the 90s, and if it's your thing, like mine, there's nothing wrong with that. However, a poorly mixed, compressed or limted recording that is just down to a badly done copy is just as frustrating to me too! Again, this is all IMHO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Huge Hands - you're right, I love the "feel" you get from recording a band all together in the same room. I love to do this in my studio, and would love to do it with my rock band, but the bastards aren't around enough so it has to be done separately to a click. You definitely lose something. Call it "vibe" or whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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