A quest to replace a 4x10 with 2 1x12s

[tauzero]

I currently have a Neo Soundsystems ND410S (there's a few others on here who have had or still have the same cab). It's got the sound I like (seems neutral, nice full bottom end, not too harsh). It's also lightweight, at 24kg. However, a 4x10 cab is a little unwieldy to carry around compared to a brace of 1x12s. I'm not desperate to get shot of it but would like to explore my options.

What I'd be looking for in a 1x12 would be the same sort of sound - balanced, good extended bass response so if I want to play my low B it'll handle it perfectly happily, clarity at the higher frequencies but without harshness. It would also have to weigh 15kg or less. Budget would be £1k and preferably quite a bit less.

I did have a pair of GK Neo IIs, and they were good and light but I didn't get the sound I wanted, so they're off the list.

Any suggestions?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The only way to be sure is to compare the SPL charts for what you have against those of what you're considering. Catch 22: No one publishes charts for their cabs.

[chris_b]

What amp will you be using?

IME I'd happily recommend 2 Bergantino AE112 cabs or 2 Barefaced Super Compacts.

I used 2 AE112 cabs for nearly 7 years (loudly, with 5 string basses and lots of low mids dialed in) and they easily took over from my Epifani 410. I didn't miss the 410 at all. I'd recommend the CN212 but, at 46lbs, it's over your limit. IME it's worth extending your weight limit to include the CN212.

Last week I saw 2 Super Compacts in use with a TC RH750. What a great sound that was. One of the best I've heard in recent years.

Edited December 19, 2014 by chris_b

[Guest monsterthompson]

If it weren't for budget, I'd say the Barefaced Super Compact is the way to go. Two would kill your budget by a little bit, but one might be enough. A Super Twin would certainly be enough, but you wouldn't get the modular setup you are after, and it would be 2-3kg over the weight parameter you set. Some folks have mentioned the tone is a love/hate thing with them; I wasn't sure about them at first but have grown to love mine as they have broken in. I'm not familiar with the cab you have so I can't contrast them.

[Guest]

I've owned a ND210S (should never have sold that one) and a ND410S. I'd say a pair of Berg AE112's are pretty similar in tone to that cab, the only other experience I have with 12's other than GK Neo's is the Aguilar DB's and they are nothing like the NDS cabs.


Chris beat me to it

Edited December 19, 2014 by kennyrodgers

[tauzero]

The amp's a Tecamp Puma 900. I don't really want to replace a 4x10 by a 2x12, the gains to me from doing that are pretty insignificant.

[JTUK]

A couple of Berg AE112's will do the job and they weigh around 32lbs

[stingrayPete1977]

I'd be trying out a pair of TKS 12s myself, I've got a 2x12 and a 1x12 realistically I would be better selling both cabs and buying something similar to what the OP requires, if I did the TKS would be my first brand to try

[JTUK]

Yes, but I know someone who would probably sell a pair of Bergs

Edited December 19, 2014 by JTUK

[stingrayPete1977]

Ha

[M@23]

I have two TKS 112. They're worth a go if you're anywhere near Reading and Bass Gear? I had a 2x12 before and a 4x10 before that, neither of which were too heavy, but the portability of the two 1x12s is wonderful in comparison. Especially if the load in includes stairs or when get home from a gig, knackered, at 1 am.

[goblin]

I've got a pair of Hartke 112s and love them. Dual impedance, 300 watts a piece, 14kg and definitely not short of volume or bottom end. I get no quibbles when using the octaver or going down to bottom As.

You can pick them up new for around £700 the pair, much less second hand.

[Dan Dare]

Why not go for two 2x10s? If you like 4x10 sound, but not the weight, that's the way to keep it, but have something easier to handle. 2x12 won't move nearly as much air as 4x10 (226 sq in of cone area, as opposed to 314 sq in). And of course, you can take just a single 2x10 for small jobs. I use 2x10 and 1x15 and find it a good combination.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1419249938' post='2637928']
Why not go for two 2x10s? If you like 4x10 sound, but not the weight, that's the way to keep it, but have something easier to handle. 2x12 won't move nearly as much air as 4x10 (226 sq in of cone area, as opposed to 314 sq in).
[/quote]

It's not just cone surface, it's how much air they can displace. There are 2x12 cabs that move more air than the majority of current 410s.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1419269778' post='2638198']


It's not just cone surface, it's how much air they can displace. There are 2x12 cabs that move more air than the majority of current 410s.
[/quote]
My 2x12 can see off many 4x10s especially older designs, a good 2x12 or pair of 12s should be a match for most 4x10s ime.

[JTUK]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1419275409' post='2638281']
My 2x12 can see off many 4x10s especially older designs, a good 2x12 or pair of 12s should be a match for most 4x10s ime.
[/quote]

I'd probably be sceptical about claims like that in general but depends what you are matching up with.
For me..the benchmark 410's were SWR Goliaths and Eden XLT's..plus a few others from EBS and Epifani..
and not forgetting Aguilar and certainly Berg..
I think 2 DB210's certainly do very well against my DB212 but the 10's have more all round cut but the 212 has
bigger bottom... My thinking is that I don't really have to have the 212 do that for me, but it is nice anyway.
I like the modular thing about 112s and the carry is great to have.

If left to me and I had the gig for it, I'd have an 810... but I don't do enough for the 610 I was going to get anyway,
so happy to run anything from 112, to combinations of 212 and 210's..
Having a great time with DB212 and 210 myself and that is a big gig rig, but I do chuckle when I see a tiny
112 turn up. I almost break my rule and offer the guy the loan of my rig..out of sympathy

[stingrayPete1977]

Yes but you are comparing good 4x10s (pairs of 2x10s) to my good 2x12, something that is ok but at the cheaper end of the 2x10 market wont match a top end 2x12.

[JPJ]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1419007608' post='2635698']
The only way to be sure is to compare the SPL charts for what you have against those of what you're considering. Catch 22: No one publishes charts for their cabs.
[/quote]

I know one cabinet designer who does

[JTUK]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1419279178' post='2638355']
Yes but you are comparing good 4x10s (pairs of 2x10s) to my good 2x12, something that is ok but at the cheaper end of the 2x10 market wont match a top end 2x12.
[/quote]

Agree.... iffy cabs are iffy cabs.
All my cabs are good, IMO, which is why I bought them..suffice to say

I'll clarify..top end 2x210 or a 410 will put paid to a top end 212...
I accept that other reasons might come into play about why a 212 is a very good compromise
-and why you would use one - but if you didn't have to make one...410's all the way, for me.
Providing it is a very good one. If you brought a very good 212, you'd be wanting to buy the equal
in 210/410's..??

[mcnach]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1419286658' post='2638478']
Agree.... iffy cabs are iffy cabs.
All my cabs are good, IMO, which is why I bought them..suffice to say

I'll clarify..top end 2x210 or a 410 will put paid to a top end 212...
I accept that other reasons might come into play about why a 212 is a very good compromise
-and why you would use one - but if you didn't have to make one...410's all the way, for me.
Providing it is a very good one. If you brought a very good 212, you'd be wanting to buy the equal
in 210/410's..??
[/quote]

if I didn't have to carry it... I'd use 8x10s every time!

[Dan Dare]

Remember, the original question was about replacing a 4x10 with two 1x12. I still contend that the best way to do that and retain the 4x10 sound is to go for two 2x10s (it goes without saying that they should not be cheap and nasty, of course). It IS largely down to cone area (assuming material quality, construction, etc is equivalent). You need to move air for low frequencies and there's no escaping that. These mini rigs sound great in the shop, but put them in a large space, with drums, etc and they sound very anaemic. You may get mid and top, but there's no 'heft'. SpL measurements are of little use if they don't take account of frequency.

[fretmeister]

Berg CN112.

Get a pair. Awesome cabs.

[stingrayPete1977]

Im not sure I'd call a 2x12 a mini rig? Looking at the absolute max outputs possible is pointless imo, I never need to run mine at full tilt so as long as there is spare head room and a tone you like I wouldn't get hung up on cone sizes unless its got a flake and raspberry sauce on top.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1419303562' post='2638594']


if I didn't have to carry it... I'd use 8x10s every time!
[/quote]
I'd say most bands in that situation are using in ears for the full band, nothing but stage dressing, that said so would I

[JTUK]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1419355888' post='2639113']
Im not sure I'd call a 2x12 a mini rig? Looking at the absolute max outputs possible is pointless imo, I never need to run mine at full tilt so as long as there is spare head room and a tone you like I wouldn't get hung up on cone sizes unless its got a flake and raspberry sauce on top.
[/quote]

But if you are running with 4k of foldback/fills then you might want a bigger stack than a 212 just to get the bass up to your ear.
Plus..I am not so sure IEM is so prevelent on P.A spec and it depends what sort of gig/tour can afford them.
Regular bands can justify the cost over a few tours but pick-up bands less so..??