AndyBass Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Howdy. I've recently joined a new band and after the last few years spent in duos and trios, with slap as the only percussion, I'm now in a 6 piece band (an awesome one, I should add!), with loud drums, keys, sax...the works. Now I've already accepted my lovely Genz Benz Stl 3.0 10T ain't going to cut it. A 10" speaker at 175w isn't going to keep up. Now I could get another cab and bump it to 300w (max), but I suspect that would be throwing more cash at a solution that'll still at best let me just about keep up. So any recommendations for what I should be looking for amp-wise? What set ups do you use to cut through in a big loud ensemble? Bear in mind I'm flat broke so I'm wondering for the future and in case I need to get my little Genz up for sale, for the time being I'll be borrowing gear where I can. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I've used my shuttle 3.0 with my 4 ohm 2x12, you will be surprised how much it can kick out given a good 4 ohm load, I love my 3.0 too and I'd never sell it as its so handy as a backup head, practice amp, DI box etc. Could anyone lend you a bigger cab to try, a 2x12 or a 4x10 maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 We do have a bunch of 2x12s etc at the practice room but they're all jack inputs and haven't had a speakon to jack connector handy to be able to try them as yet. Worth a go though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I can lend you my EAD 212 if you like. I'm just up the road. It works great for DB being 3-way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I keep a speakon to jack in my kit bag just in case either my head or cab went mid gig as my cabs are only speakon so I'd need to reverse it to use some one else's head with my cabs. Certainly worth trying because you would need the bigger cab either way wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 [quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1421098297' post='2657197'] I can lend you my EAD 212 if you like. I'm just up the road. It works great for DB being 3-way. [/quote] What a nice chap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If you like Genz, I have a Shuttle 6.2 in the classifieds. Add a 2x12 and you can be heard on the moon (well not quite, but loud enough for anywhere and still hi fi sound). Pardon the plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randythoades Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I would just use the current setup for monitoring and DI into the PA for overall volume. Only expense maybe a decent mic lead or external DI box. I use a GK MB200 into an 8ohm Ashdown 1x12 (so only around 170 watts) which is loud enough for me even on half volume and DI the amp into the PA for everyone else. In my opinion it makes the DB seem really airy and perfect for me. Although to be fair, the drummer is considerate to the music and plays at a good level rather than smashing it to pieces. Can't hurt to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This ^ That's a good call. If you like your current rig and all you're looking for is more volume, then get yourself a Fishman Platinum Pro or similar. Run an XLR to the PA for both signal and phantom power, and run a 1/4" jack from either the main output or from the parallel (uneffected) output, depending on whether you need different EQ for each of your amp and the PA. That will give you (in effect) unlimited headroom, PLUS it will project the sound of your bass to the back of the room far more effectively than simply buying a bigger amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think that's what most people do, At least in the DB world. I use my amp for monitoring and post eq DI signal 90% of the time now. But there are lots of venues with inadequate Front of house systems: pubs, Community festivals, some arts centres just for some examples. In those cases if you don't have the potential of an amp configuration who could at least move a bit of air, you're just not gonna be heard. Now, all you may need in that case is a cheap extension speaker for your Genz 3.0, which you can keep in the garage until such venue comes along. That would allow you to get the full 300w out of you current rig and it's probably gonna be enough. Sound quality may be a bit compromised, but it may not be the kind of gig where the quality of your sound is noticed anyway? Just a thought. Anyway, yes everybody needs a Plat Pro or equivalent to get you out of trouble in unexpected situations IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The shuttle already has a DI on the back so that is covered but I do use a Fishman in front even with a mag pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmayhem Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If you like the tone, why not try to find a second hand active monitor that you can link your sound/tone to. They can often be found at bargain prices and are useful for other stuff too. My keyboard player has two JBL Eon's and a personal mixer for his keyboard set up as well as for his monitoring of the rest of the band... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks for the opinions everyone! (And for the offer of a cab try-out, TPJ. May take you up on that - they even look cool which is going some for cabs!). I do normally DI into the PA. Don't use a Fishman as they're single channel (to my knowledge) and I use a Fonokraft bridge/clicky pickup through the K&K mixer preamp instead. Always been happy enough with my DI'd sound though. I think the scenario I have in mind is the kinda thing Rabbie mentions, those situations where the PA or the monitors aren't up to the job and you need an amp that can cut through against the rest of the band. Really it's about making sure that as and when I do spend any more on amplification that I'm not buying just enough power to be heard at full tilt with no headroom beyond that. So is the general consensus that 300 watts through the 1x10 and a 2x12 is likely to be sufficient by way of "balls", ideally as monitoring with the PA as the main output, but would still cut it in most situations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think so for just now. But you may want to get yourself some free headroom in the future whenever you can afford it, so you don't have to push your amp and compromise its qualities. The louder you get though, providing you can tame feedback, and the less you'll sound like a traditional DB. Still some rockabilly and psychobilly guys are after that modern, tsunami-inducing, constipation-curing thunderous sound. Nothing wrong with that and I myself enjoy some Brian Setzer Orchestra and Rev Horton Heath. Great bass sounds, no acoustic quality to it. If that's what you're after, you gotta stack up those cabs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero9 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I would concur that the way forward is more speaker area with your current setup. As already suggested, something like a 2x12, a 4x10 or two 2x10's, with a 4 Ohm total load should work. A single 10 won't do in a loud band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Wish I'd paid more attention in Physics so I understood any of this Ohms stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes you need to drop the 1x10 and just use the 2x12 or 4x10 or 2 2x10s a single 4 ohm 2x12 would be my choice or a fancy 4 ohm cab with various drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 [quote name='AndyBass' timestamp='1421179211' post='2658175'] Don't use a Fishman as they're single channel (to my knowledge) ... [/quote] I don't follow ... why would you have a multi-channel pre-amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1421228300' post='2658554'] I don't follow ... why would you have a multi-channel pre-amp? [/quote] Because he has two outputs from his bass, these then get mixed together into one output into the amp or pa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 So, and here's where my fundamental lack of understanding of all things electronic becomes apparent, if I'm connecting my Shuttle 3.0 to a 2x12 cab, I do that instead of to my 1x10 cab rather than as well as, yeah? Thanks for the ongoing info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 ...and yes as Pete says, it's because I have a bridge pickup and clicky mixed into a single signal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 if you want to get your 300w you need to create a 4ohm load, either by a single cabinet rated at 4ohms or by stacking 2 cabinets rates at 8ohms each. your current 10inch can is rated at 8ohms, so if you stack another 8ohms on top you get the 4ohms and 300watts maximum power. After all of this, just to confuse you, remember that wattage is not the be and end of it if you wanna make a big noise: in fact the size of speaker is also very important. So even with your 8ohms cab, your wee 10inch will never be as efficient as a 4x10 or 1x15. There is a lot more to it of course, sorry if the above is not explained as clearly as it could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 A second 1x10 genz cab would sound great but might not be enough still, if you add another larger 8 ohm cab it might sound great but at the same time the 10 might be ruined without you hearing it! A single 4 ohm cab and a speakon lead instead of your 1x10 combo connected would be best imo, the shuttle 3.0 only has a single output connection too so make sure if you buy or borrow a pair of cabs they have parallel input connections and a pair of leads to daisy chain them, does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My intention is to use my CMD121H. Should be plenty, no drummers likely to be involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I got a Maplins mini preset pot and wired it between the neck pickup and output jack.its set to add click at desired amount.no need for 2 outputs from the bass.no affect on bridge puckup at all. Cost about 80p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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