Bilbo Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I have a MESH PC that I bought in the early noughties - it has to be over 10 years old - and I run an old version of Sibelius (v.2 or something like that) and an old version of Cubase SX. I have NEVER linked that computer up to the internet and, get this, it is pretty much as stable toooday as it was when I bought it. I have no doubt that the fact that it has not been on-line os why it has remained stable (I have no real faith in security software and firewalls in terms of protecting your content from viruses and have not had any security software on my MESH for years and years without any problems). The problem is, it runs on Windows XP. I want to get into loops and samples but am finding that a lot of the stuff I can access I need to download to my internet computer, copy onto a flash drive and move across. The problem is that the process is now not working as often as it is. I recently got hold of Miroslav Philharmonik and it came with shedloads of free samples. Luckily I was able to get the MP working but the samples and loops would not work because the download manager for the samples and associated software was not compatible with Windows XP. I am torn because I cannot justify the expense of another computer (I really do not record anything that often and there is no professional driver here (unlike my need for WORD and ADOBE etc) but I do not want to hook the PC up to the net and destabilise it. Can I upgrade the OS on the PC without losing everything? It may not even have enough memory for all the modern bells and whistles. At the moment, I have a nice toy to play with and can write and record my little ditties without any real difficulties. Trouble is, if I do not do something, what I have is all that there will ever be. Part of my question is; can a 'music' computer be hooked up to the internet safely? My gut says no but there are so many downloadable software packages that I figure there must be some way of doing it. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 You're correct that keeping it offline has kept it stable. Not just because of malicious software but also due to avoiding any updates or changes to your software I'm confused by your issue. Copying files from your internet PC to your music PC should work fine. You mention a "download manager" which isn't compatible with XP, but your XP machine isn't online so it doesn't need to download anything? I'm guessing you've downloaded a music program that you want to use on your music PC, but it won't run as it's not compatible with XP, is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The reason it's probably running the same as it did when you bought it is the existing software has never changed; you've not implemented ANY of the software upgrades, security and bug fixes for either Windows XP or the other programs. The minute you connect it to the Internet it'll probably start looking for updates, especially with Windows and this will likely impact available disk space and possibly performance. If it's that old then it'll probably not run particularly well with an updated OS or updated applications as these inevitably need more resources. I'd also suggest that there's no need to doubt the effectiveness of firewall and antivirus software - even the free antivirus products such as Avast, Avira and AVG are very effective (I use Avast) and I rely on the inbuilt firewall that comes with Windows 7 and as long as you're sensible and don't try downloading/using questionable content then you should be fine. What might not work is trying to run your old versions of Sibelius and Cubase on a new platform (though it's usually old peripherals that suffer more than programs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1421336579' post='2660064'] You're correct that keeping it offline has kept it stable. Not just because of malicious software but also due to avoiding any updates or changes to your software I'm confused by your issue. Copying files from your internet PC to your music PC should work fine. You mention a "download manager" which isn't compatible with XP, but your XP machine isn't online so it doesn't need to download anything? I'm guessing you've downloaded a music program that you want to use on your music PC, but it won't run as it's not compatible with XP, is that right? [/quote] My 'problem' (a first world problem is ever I saw one!!) is that I have a load of downloaded samples that run on a specific platform (I can't even remember what it is called). The download manager is not to put the software platform onto my computer; that worked in the normal way. It is to [i]activate[/i] it. So, because I cannot activate it, I have hundreds of loops and samples that I can see but which I cannot use because they cannot be switched on. Regarding Howie's observations. I have no doubt you are right. What amuses me is that I have managed without the updates all this time which tells us the value of the 'update' culture. 'Gotta have the latest thing' = 'trash your computer' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 interesting. If you could tell us the name of the software you want to use, maybe we can figure out a way to activate it in XP I wouldn't try to upgrade from XP to Win 7, you'll ruin your stable tranquility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 I am racking my brains!! (it is at home and I am in work). SAMPLETANK!!! It just came to me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Contact the Sampletank editors and explain your situation (on their [url="http://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewforum.php?f=12"]forum[/url], maybe..? Search for 'activation'...); I'm sure there are many that run without web connectivity. Worth a punt..? You will find, however, that these wonderful applications do require more and more memory and processing power. I'm in a similar situation; my creaking XP is now quite recalcitrant if I get even the least ambitious, and the newer tools, such as Kontakt, turn their virtual noses up at my paltry 32-bits. Sooner or later; it's mostly just a matter of finances. Upgrading every 10 years or so is really not that out of order, I suppose. I don't drive a Bull-nose Morris any more... Edited January 15, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) You need to contact (email) IK Media to see if you can Authorise Sampletank offline. (Or just go to their website and check under Q&A's). Most online activations usually have a provision for offline activations, mainly s/n and challenge and response. My music puter is offline, but for activations and music software updates, I just enable my Internet connection, windows firewall and windows defender, and when finished I just disable all three when finished. The software sites are known and clean so little chance of picking up virus's etc. EDIT. Ah...I see your problem (download manager is for the activation manager). http://www.ikmultimedia.com/registration/ For legacy Sampletank older versions, Activation at the bottom of the page. Newer versions you need to Download the activation download manager. What version of Sampletank do you have? that will determine how you activate. Edited January 15, 2015 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1421337936' post='2660086'] Regarding Howie's observations. I have no doubt you are right. What amuses me is that I have managed without the updates all this time which tells us the value of the 'update' culture. 'Gotta have the latest thing' = 'trash your computer' [/quote] I didn't say you needed to update your old PC - as I already mentioned that's why it's remained stable and running without a hitch - the reason most people allow Windows and other pieces of software to implement bug and security fixes is they're using them online and as you're already aware keeping a machine in virtual quarantine means it's unlikely to encounter any virus or malware. What you have found is that the computer world moves on and old systems don't always integrate well with new systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1421335881' post='2660055'] Part of my question is; can a 'music' computer be hooked up to the internet safely? [/quote] Yes. I have one. It's called a Mac. I'll get me coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1421361105' post='2660473'] Yes. I have one. It's called a Mac. I'll get me coat. [/quote] You jest.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1421335881' post='2660055'] Part of my question is; can a 'music' computer be hooked up to the internet safely? My gut says no but there are so many downloadable software packages that I figure there must be some way of doing it. [/quote] Yep of course. My main (and only) PC runs Windows 7, all my music software, my games and photo stuff. You just need to keep your computer up to date and keep an updated anti-virus on there. Also, don't go downloading loads of "free" stuff off bit torrent (I'm not saying that you do of course) and the like as that's where most of the malware and viruses will come from. Stay off the porn sites too (again I'm not saying that you do... ) and just be sensible and it'll be fine. I've no idea why anyone thinks they should keep an audio PC off the internet really. If you're happy banking online and typing your credit card details online then you shouldn't be worried about your music software. In fact, the only reason it should be offline is to stop you from idling over to Basschat when you're meant to be working and buying more gear than you need Incidentally, in the last 5 years when I ran a Windows 7 PC at home alongside my Macbook Pro at work it was the Macbook that got a piece of malware on it and not the PC. Anti virus for either platform is recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I would recommend, in any case, to adopt a 'worst case scenario' attitude and take precautions such that, if there's a total loss of service (virus, house fire, burglary, whatever...) any and all of your information (software and their 'keys', projects and files etc; most especially anything unique that can't be bought...) is stored very regularly somewhere safe (off-site..? Cloud..?...) 'Ghosted' partitions, back-up software, regular duplicating to another medium... If none of these precautions are actually invoked, it will be because there's been no 'incident'. One can be sure, though, that if there is no back-up plan, an incident will be very troublesome. This, independent of platform, OS, or such. It's all too often neglected. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1421441463' post='2661399'] I've no idea why anyone thinks they should keep an audio PC off the internet really. [/quote] More to do with back ground processes and conflicts then going on the net. More so on older machines, although even on newer machines you can grab extra juice. With huge project templates of 100 midi tracks and more, or loads of VSTI's & VST's those extra %'s help. Anti virus running in the background. Wifi and Bluetooth interfering with some Audio devices. A few reasons really. Pretty much all the DAW vendors recommend disabling these things when not in use, and just enabling when you need to update drivers or download software updates. If someone is only using a couple of VI's and minimal Audio tracks, proberly not much to gain or go wrong. Some really good tips for tip top use. http://www.presonus.com/news/articles/Optimizing-Windows-Vista-and-Windows-7-for-Music-Production https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013376/Windows-Optimization-Guide https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/steinberg_support_daw.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Makes sense Lowdown, I'll check out those resources. Might be worth setting up a secondary profile that loads only the drivers and programs you need and unplugging from the net. Saying that, my PC is specced for gaming as well as audio so I've managed to record bass on top of EZ drummer and a couple of other tracks lag free whilst having World of Warcraft playing in the background so maybe it's more of a low-spec PC thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The other thing you could look at Rob is creating a Hackintosh - a PC that runs OSX http://www.hackintosh.com/ Never done it but I know people who have no problems - but a bit of a faff - might be better just to buy a refurbed Macbook Pro http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_air/13 Not 'cheap' but will last you years and years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 It's all about justifying the outlay, Mike. I love the idea of 'playing' with the kit but paying for is is a lot less attractive when I don't really do that much with it. I will stick with what I have for now and wait for a windfall!!!! Maybe when I sell the first million copies of Mr. P.C.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1421447486' post='2661507'] More to do with back ground processes and conflicts then going on the net. More so on older machines, although even on newer machines you can grab extra juice. With huge project templates of 100 midi tracks and more, or loads of VSTI's & VST's those extra %'s help. Anti virus running in the background. Wifi and Bluetooth interfering with some Audio devices. A few reasons really. Pretty much all the DAW vendors recommend disabling these things when not in use, and just enabling when you need to update drivers or download software updates. If someone is only using a couple of VI's and minimal Audio tracks, proberly not much to gain or go wrong. Some really good tips for tip top use. [url="http://www.presonus.com/news/articles/Optimizing-Windows-Vista-and-Windows-7-for-Music-Production"]http://www.presonus....usic-Production[/url] [url="https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013376/Windows-Optimization-Guide"]https://www.cakewalk...imization-Guide[/url] [url="https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/steinberg_support_daw.html"]https://www.steinber...upport_daw.html[/url] [/quote] I'll have a good read through those, cheers! It all seemed a bit strange that it's mostly music peeps who keep their PCs off the Internet. I come from a PC gaming background where gamers spend thousands on components to get the most from their PCs yet still run wi-fi/network adapters and stay connected even if they're playing offline games. I'd have thought that if it made such a big difference then those type of gamers would recommend it all the time. Some anti-virus programs have a gamers option that pretty much puts them in an unobtrusive mode where they won't flag up alerts or take up as much processing power whilst in that mode. I tend to use this when doing any audio work. I'm sure NOD 32 from Eset is one of the recommended ones for that although my free Avast has that mode too. I just read those links above whilst writing this and perhaps it's the gamer in me, but if I found that my network card was using up CPU cycles to the point of it causing pops and clicks in my DAW (as suggested by PreSonus) then my CPU is not fit for purpose for running a DAW and would need upgrading. But the caveat there is that I tend to invest a lot in my PC (e.g. £250 for my CPU and an extra £40 for the heatsink and fan for quiet cooling) whereas others aren't running high-end i7 processors. Having just read Bilbo's original post again he asks if an audio PC can be hooked up to the internet safely and my answer would be yes, absolutely, but you'd need your operating system to be up to date and have a firewall and anti-virus installed. I don't think these are an option for Bilbo as there's a risk that updating them will bugger up his PC. Even Mac users should be wary of updates to OSX as it was an OSX update that buggered GarageBand for me and made me move over to my Windows machine for recording. But in general, I would always say yes, you can safely hook up an audio PC to the internet. You can choose not to of course, but if you're dealing with virtual instruments and loads of plugins you probably have to in order to authorise a lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I am maybe simply very lucky (that would be the first time, though..!); I have been using my Lenovo M57 for several (too many..!) years with XP SP3, with no firewall nor anti-virus at all (well, I think Chrome has something built-in, or is it Google..? Dunno...). Result..? I've never suffered any viral attack; the worst I get is a few 'spam' messages a day; that's all. It's true that my 'surfing' is relatively modest; I don't frequent sites supposedly proposing odd pictures of oriental ladies, or offers to enlarge parts of my anatomy, nor do I click on just any old rubbish I see on screen. Disclaimer: I spent many years as an IT Manager, and am very well aware of the potential dangers lurking on t'web. I would maintain, however, that it's reasonably safe if one is sensible, and having a good, up-to-date back-up eliminates any need for paranoiac measures. Just my tuppence-worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1421782629' post='2665005'] XP SP3, with no firewall nor anti-virus at all [/quote] Holy crap! That's like having unprotected sex in Africa! I'd recommend installing them right now. You may not notice any viruses or anything but your PC may be a remote host for a bot net that spams the internet or worse. I read an article a few years ago where a PC magazine hooked up a base install of XP with no firewall or anti-virus and monitored what happened. It was compromised within minutes and they hadn't even launched a web browser. Just tried to find that article but no joy yet. I'm sure they mentioned that spammers use software to sniff out PCs on the Internet that don't have firewalls on, or have un-patched security holes and can access them that way. I don't think any browser has anti-virus build in but most, if not all, anti-virus programs will install some sort of browser plugin. You're right that a lot of vigilance and sensibleness can go a long way towards keeping you safe but I'd always always go with a firewall and anti-virus. Windows has a firewall built in (that's the one I use) and anti-virus can be had for free (Avast and AVG for example). At work our Macs use Eset but that's a paid-for licence. Edited January 20, 2015 by Mornats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1421783294' post='2665018'] Holy crap! That's like having unprotected sex in Africa! I'd recommend installing them right now. You may not notice any viruses or anything but your PC may be a remote host for a bot net that spams the internet or worse. I read an article a few years ago where a PC magazine hooked up a base install of XP with no firewall or anti-virus and monitored what happened. It was compromised within minutes and they hadn't even launched a web browser. Just tried to find that article but no joy yet. I'm sure they mentioned that spammers use software to sniff out PCs on the Internet that don't have firewalls on, or have un-patched security holes and can access them that way. I don't think any browser has anti-virus build in but most, if not all, anti-virus programs will install some sort of browser plugin. You're right that a lot of vigilance and sensibleness can go a long way towards keeping you safe but I'd always always go with a firewall and anti-virus. Windows has a firewall built in (that's the one I use) and anti-virus can be had for free (Avast and AVG for example). At work our Macs use Eset but that's a paid-for licence. [/quote] Thanks for the concern, but I can assure that my poor old PC has no unwanted processes, 'bots or malware; I keep a pretty close eye on things. It's not difficult, nor (imo...) all that risky, as long as one is aware of what is supposed to be in one's system and what is not. Not for everyone, maybe, but at least my resources are all used for my use, not eaten up, or even nibbled at, by unwanted applications. It's a choice that I'm happy to assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1421783796' post='2665027'] but at least my resources are all used for my use, not eaten up, or even nibbled at, by unwanted applications. It's a choice that I'm happy to assume. [/quote] That's why I disable Wifi, windows defender and windows firewall after Internet use (it takes a few seconds to do this). My music PC only goes on line for music software updates or audio/midi unit driver updates. (maybe any important windows system/graphics card updates). I also have the windows 'best performance' turned on (I think it disables the w7/w8 Aero theme thing - a bit of a hog). A clean machine (i7 quadcore), that just handles everything I throw at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'd surely be in a different position if I had (one day, maybe...) a reasonably powerful machine to handle these 'overheads'. I'm not maniac about it, but I need every bit of processor available for my DAW use (modest Reaper, but wanting to use high resource vst's such as Superior Drummer 2, Philharmonik, SampleTank etc...). As said, I've not 'caught a cold' in decades, I'm not bothered about OS updates (I prefer a quaint but stable platform...) and want the boat rocked as little as possible. It's already delicate enough as it is, when I'm 'cooking'; I often have to turn on/turn off, empty caches, generally frig around, without the hassle (to me...) of AV and stuff poking their snouts in. I'm aiming for an i7, win 8.1 machine once finances allow, and will re-consider my policies then. Meanwhile, fingers crossed (and not much in the way of sex, either, in Africa nor elsewhere.. [size=4] [/size][size=4]).[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sorry I've been away from this thread You should be able to register sampletank on your offline PC. There are some steps here for T-Racks which should work the same http://www.ikmultimedia.com/faq/index.php?id=3602 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Remember that Microsoft are no longer supporting XP, so any newly-discovered security holes will stay open :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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