I still don't understand Pre-Amp pedals

[Left Foot]

I'm not really sure where the benefit lies in pre-amps and why there's a lust over certain models and makes. Are they just a pragmatic solution for gigging?[list]
[*]I get that a DI is good for going straight into the PA system, sure. (other small boxes can do it for a fraction of the price.)
[*]I get that they might replicate the sound of amps, but: if I'm trying to get an Ampeg sound through a Tech21VTBass pedal, wont it still sound horse sh*t through a piece of japcrap amp and cab?
[*]I get that pre-amps are nether EQ's, Boosters, Compressors - are they just gloried tone boxes (not saying that that isnt great if youve got the other kit to make that happen).
[/list]


I know Im being a simpleton, but why? Ive missed the thought pattern with these pedals.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Left Foot

[franzbassist]

I have the Dual Bass Station by Providence, and I find it to be indispensable.



Two inputs: I switch between electric and upright constantly at each gig
Individual master volumes: set the basses at the same volume at the start of the gig
3 band eq with sweepable mids: leave the amp flat and eq each bass via the pedal
tuner and mute: silent tuning

If I was playing one bass at a gig I wouldn't bother with it, unless I wanted to set up two different core tones (e.g slap and fingerstyle), but for two basses it's the biz!

[cheddatom]

They can be very useful tools. A lot of people these days are foregoing an amp all together, in which case a pre-amp of some sort is pretty much essential, if you care about your sound

You might be one of these guys who just wants to give the sound man a clean DI and forget about it, in which case it's probably not for you

[1976fenderhead]

I do find that using a preamp pedal along with my amp does tend to end up confusing my tonal choices in the long run, to a point where I've just decided to put my BDDI away, unless if I'll be using it to record without an amp. I already have EQ and valves in my amp and EQ in my active bass, are those so bad that I need a preamp pedal as well? And if I'm going to choose only the pedal's EQ by going to the FX return of the amp, seems a bit silly to replace the sound of my GK MB Fusion 500 with that of the BDDI... I've decided to just make those work. Preamp pedal only if no amp present, that's what I'm trying to do now.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 28, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[The Badderer]

you can just stick your bass into a DI box and send it to the PA, but what happens if you / your band ask you to tweak your sound so that it's how you like it. Or the sound man wants to make your bass sound the way he wants it to sound. If you're happy to not have that option, then a DI box is all you need, especially if you like the clean sound of your bass and happy to trust the sound engineer.

People who opt for Preamp type pedals are the type of people who want to be able to get "their" sound and then send that to the desk. Hope that's not too generalised. there are many more reasons for these pedals, but that seemed the best basic description.

Also you have assumed that people are going to use these pedals as a way of saving money through not having to buy a valve head and cab, and will run it through a cheap solid state amp which will sound pants. People who choose to use a preamp -> power amp -> nice cab set up are people who want to have more specific control over their tone and the sound that comes out the end. An Ampeg valve head will always sound like an Ampeg valve head and you can control it as such, and a lot of bass players on here want Fender Precision -> Ampeg Valve Head -> Cab and that is all they will ever want..... but what if you want several different options over the course of an evening or a week because you're in different bands or have different playing styles. There is a lot of flexibility to using a preamp pedal combined with a decent amp, or a power amp and cab.

Hope i've put this the right way, i mean it in no way to be confrontational.

Edited March 17, 2015 by The Badderer

[Left Foot]

Nice one guys, I think I've over simplified things and not appreciated these pedals and there applications.

I'm not a tone freak at all and usually get sound guy to Mic up if needing pa. I only have one band and don't play frequently enough to warrant a preamp pedal. I suppose its a pragmatic solution to a problem I've not had.

[elephantgrey]

They can be used as part of a board as a light drive. I use a sim of a preamp (The BDDI model on a zoom ms60b) in my setup, i use it at low gain to colour my sound. Especially after drive pedals with a blend, so that it sounds more like one bass and not a clean + distorted.

[sifi2112]

I loved the sound of a cranked GK RB but also like clean for certain parts (maybe with some modulation). When I sold most of my gear after finishing with my last band I wasn't sure if I'd join another .. well I did after a year & a half but I took a different approach ....

In current band I can express myself a lot more & want a two channel clean / dirt type setup with effects. I tried a pedal preamp with effects A / B loop switch setup & run into a powered cab. I now do direct from bass into a RMI Basswitch IQ DI & utilize it's two effects loops then out to powered cab .. I'm still building this reasonably compact pedal board but it will allow me just to take it without the powered cab should the need arise & either use any backline (as long as the amp has a power amp in / effects return jack) and/or run straight to FOH DI.

If I was just playing straight up heavy rock stuff like I used to I'd just do plug & play into a nice amp (with a quality cab) but things have changed for me & I can still get that sound but now much more all at my feet ...

[The Badderer]

Left Foot, far better to be that way round than owning 3 different preamp pedals wondering what they do and why the hell can't you get "that sound"!!

[paul_5]

Horses for courses. I like them (DHA VT1 EQ user here) and the flexibility that they give. They're also a 'get out of jail free card' if speaking from experience) the valve in your amp's preamp goes during a gig - simply take the lead out of the amp's main input and plug it into the FX return, that sends it straight to the power amp section and rescues your rig. None of this affected the sound guy's settings through the PA, cos I was DI'ed out of my pre too.

Happy days...

[Left Foot]

Badderer - yeah, to true buddy.

Would a sansamp / preamp be something vital when using a power amp as a cheap alternative to 'real' amps?

Edited March 24, 2015 by Left Foot

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I like effects , and I like clean sound.Technology. Has come a long way .With guitarists , it seems they have their 'sound' ( ie Marshall stack & a few pedals ).Taking this approach , I have a gk combo and some sepetate effects from boss( flanger/delay etc.)
If I were to get a preamp again, I would get a cheap no name amp and play it through that.
I would imagine that the ordinary would sound great. But put the preamp into my gk amp, I guess it would always sound like an imitation.

[Bass Pedal Geek]

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1426606592' post='2719781']
I have the Dual Bass Station by Providence, and I find it to be indispensable.



Two inputs: I switch between electric and upright constantly at each gig
Individual master volumes: set the basses at the same volume at the start of the gig
3 band eq with sweepable mids: leave the amp flat and eq each bass via the pedal
tuner and mute: silent tuning

If I was playing one bass at a gig I wouldn't bother with it, unless I wanted to set up two different core tones (e.g slap and fingerstyle), but for two basses it's the biz!
[/quote]

Wow that's looks liek a neat pedal! Want to try out one of these as soon as possible...

[cameltoe]

I don't really understand the preamp thing either, I'm happy with my sound but I wanted a decent DI signal and a bit more EQ control (OBT owner!) so I went for the DHA DI EQ, which does both those things well.

No idea if it could be considered a preamp, but it does what I want.

[LayDownThaFunk]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1427393125' post='2729899']
I don't really understand the preamp thing either, I'm happy with my sound but I wanted a decent DI signal and a bit more EQ control (OBT owner!) so I went for the DHA DI EQ, which does both those things well.

No idea if it could be considered a preamp, but it does what I want.
[/quote]
Very much a preamp.

[lefrash]

If you do half your gigs through house amps or direct through PA, then a preamp makes perfect sense. It means you use whatever amp basically as a power amp, and you use your pedal board for the tone shaping. Means that you'll sound moreor less the same at every gig (which for me is a good thing). Also, your other effects like fuzz will sound infinitely better through the PA if its been coloured by a preamp pedal.

For me, its a must have pedal. I currently use an ms60b with the BDDI simulator, but have used a number over the years.

[Prime_BASS]

All my 'tone' comes from 2 preamp pedals

[Lozz196]

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1427565779' post='2731813']
If you do half your gigs through house amps or direct through PA, then a preamp makes perfect sense. It means you use whatever amp basically as a power amp, and you use your pedal board for the tone shaping. Means that you'll sound moreor less the same at every gig (which for me is a good thing).
[/quote]

This hits it for me. I have the same amp/pre-amp pedal, Aguilar Tonehammer - so whatever happens I get my sound which in my band is quite essential, a plain DI from the bass only would decimate our sound (as warm, woolly, clean bass is not the order of the day).

[Shockwave]

I can make any amp sound like my chosen tone with my VT deluxe bass. Go through return effects and it's fantastic. I couldn't do without mine. The single most useful piece of bass gear I have owned.

[stuckinthepod]

A decent preamp can give you a bit more chunk and bit more presence and a bit more balls. I've found that the amp alone can sound a bit - background - and the preamp allows the bass to step forward in the mix and have a bit more identity and define its space a little better. My bandmates have noticed the difference and commented positively when I switched from a Behringer BDI preamp to the Hartke Bass Attack recently.

[n1ck-a]

Have just purchased the Boss BB-1X Bass Driver Stompbox - yet to gig it but hoping to hear improved front of house sound. Will let you know how it goes...

[Lw.]

I've just got a DHA pre-amp/DI/EQ thing - I'm still messing about with it at home to find all the sounds it's capable of but so far so good! It's always hard to tell the full impact of something when you're just noodling at home so should be able to report back more after rehearsal tomorrow.

Anyone got any favorite settings for the DHA they want to share?

[Left Foot]

Well, I went for the Xotic BB bass preamp, its kinda like (just) a REALLY good pedal because it doesn't have a DI out, so yeah: tonally, these seem to be better pedals and effects, if I could make that assertion. I'm very impressed with it so far through the mini rig at home and a GK backline 600 at the rehearsal studio. this needs a DI though to be a true preamp IMHO and not just the king of bass overdrives.

[The Badderer]

the thing is, once your sound has been through the preamp, you can just put it through a DI Box that most in house engineers will have, or you can just buy your own. it doesn't HAVE to have a DI, although it is one less connection / thing to go wrong. The important thing is that you have control of your tone/sound that is being sent to the desk / amp.