Is the live scene dying?

[ubit]

I've just heard that the one regular gig in my home town is no longer doing live music due to going into receivership . They have had a cheesy disco for the last couple of months.
A few years ago , there used to be a load of bars in this area that would put bands on. Every band was busy. There was no animosity between bands as there were more than enough gigs to go round.
Gradually more and more of the live band bars have closed or simply stopped putting on music.
The live scene here is getting really bad.
The annoying thing is, this bar that I talk about, when under different management, used to bring bands from all over and had music on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday . Now it's a disco on Friday and Saturday .
There's a open mic night on in another pub, but that's not going to satisfy a gigging band. I fear for the future!

[JTUK]

I always thought that relaxing licensing laws re music would be a bad thing and lead to too many places putting on music..
which has happened and ..and that dilutes further the live music scene, IMO..
Too many bands and too many pubs doing live music means that the standard of music is lower and the fees stay lower...
hole in foot...........

Having said that.... the better ones can rise above this by being better...with better bands, that they can pay better,
and some of those pubs become venues and put on better named acts with tickets..
People have to get out on the mid-set that music is free..which it is in music pubs...even if they put the price up by
10-20p a pint..!!!

[thebigyin]

Only 2 decent live pub venues in Grimsby....definitely not the same as 30 years ago. To many venues closing down or stopping live entertainment. I'm kinda lucky had the privilege of playing 100's of gigs and supported many a top Band. But I feel for the young bands out there struggling to get gigs.

[Adrenochrome]

I think the scene is contracting at the moment as the pub trade is generally contracting. I wouldn't say dying. If you are good and willing to travel a bit, there are as many gigs available as you could want to play.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1427792602' post='2734190']
I think the scene is contracting at the moment as the pub trade is generally contracting. I wouldn't say dying. If you are good and willing to travel a bit, there are as many gigs available as you could want to play.
[/quote]yeah, lots of Pubs closing down,Some deserve too, the best ones are doing well, the ones that specialise in real ale, mostly, but they don't tend to put loud live bands on, but pubs don't stop putting live bands on if it's paying them to do so, I've played/been too to many gigs where you stand there thinking how the hell are they making this pay. Having said that lots of pubs don't do their homework, they don't check out the bands before they book them, if a pub has a few bad bands on people stop going, simple.
I'm rambling a bit here, basically if a pub is well run they will survive, unfortunately there's too many out there that aren't, IMO it's due to pub companies giving out crap contracts so anybody with any business acumen wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, it might change now the recent law been passed which means they can't be forced to by their beer, expensively, from the pub companies, fingers crossed

Edited March 31, 2015 by PaulWarning

[JTUK]

Since I try not to get too involved in pub work, I tend to look at what they offer pretty closely.
Firstly, are they pubs that I think we'd like to drink in...and secondly, are they suitable for live music,
like playing area and viewing area and then also, what sort of work will we pick up from the gig..

Real beer is a must, but then I don't know any pub around here that isn't real beer.
Tied, managed or Free is also an issue as barrels will cost anything from £45 to £120, iirc,
and that makes a huge difference to margins.
I'll also look at the band rosta to see if we sit there..

I think it doesn't help playing any old dive that puts on music..and I'll support pubs that support us
but it needs to be a pub I'll want to drink in..and hopefully, like the Landlord.

[CHW]

There are a large number of venues that advertise live music still around here- the problem is that they seem to be a singer plugging an iPod into a PA and crooning along.

Loads of open mic nights too, but the quality is hugely variable.

There are still pubs putting bands on but some I don't know how they do it. A gig prior to Christmas, that I did a gig where for the first set there were a total of 5 people in the pub, the landlord, a bar person and the half a dozen F&F & WAGS we bring along. The second set livened up but it seems a strange thing for a landlord to risk money on in those circumstances..

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='CHW' timestamp='1427798537' post='2734298']


There are still pubs putting bands on but some I don't know how they do it. A gig prior to Christmas, that I did a gig where for the first set there were a total of 5 people in the pub, the landlord, a bar person and the half a dozen F&F & WAGS we bring along. The second set livened up but it seems a strange thing for a landlord to risk money on in those circumstances..
[/quote]I've wondered this but some landlords get an entertainment allowance from the Pub Co, so it doesn't come out of his pocket, well, not directly anyway, we played a pub recently where they openly said they could only guarantee us £100, that was their allowance, but would pay us more if it went well, in the end they gave us £200

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1427791691' post='2734174']
A few years ago , there used to be a load of bars in this area that would put bands on. Every band was busy. There was no animosity between bands as there were more than enough gigs to go round.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Gradually more and more of the live band bars have closed or simply stopped putting on music. [/font][/color]

[/quote]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1427792137' post='2734184']
I always thought that relaxing licensing laws re music would be a bad thing and lead to too many places putting on music..
which has happened and ..and that dilutes further the live music scene, IMO..

[/quote]

Erm ... guys? Which is it? I think we should be told.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Happy Jack

[BigRedX]

Is this something mainly affecting covers bands then?

[Number6]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1427800694' post='2734326']
Is this something mainly affecting covers bands then?
[/quote]

Not mine.....gigs when we want them in our neck of the woods

[JTUK]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1427798928' post='2734304']
Erm ... guys? Which is it? I think we should be told.
[/quote]

I should make it clearer..
Too many pubs chasing too few punters.
MY local town can have 9 pubs in the district on a saturday putting on music.
As a punter myself, I know 75% of those gigs wont appeal, but also, at least 50%
of the bands aren't really good enough. Of course, it I was a LL and had a pub full,
the quality of the band matters not so much, ( it is all about the takings ) but the goal
should be that music is the draw, and some LL's just don't work at it hard enough
or really know what they are doing..

Making live music easier ( cheaper ) to put on makes everyone's angle less attractive.
The pubs have too much competition, the punters have too much choice and bands that will go
out for £150 undermine bands trying to get £300. If the quality of the band was higher, and
pubs bands weren't two a penny, then the bands that get the gigs could and 'should' justify more..

None of the good muso's I know want to work pubs for £50 a man..that is not to say they wont do it once in a while
but they would easily get twice or double, and some, elsewhere so that rather stops those very good players from working
pubs most of the time.. hence the standard not being as high as it might be..
I like the idea around here of pubs charging ticket prices.. I think that is a move in the right direction...
IF, you can pull the people in at that price..
I think it is a positive move anyway...

[the boy]

Pubs are dying.... Live scene is dying.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1427802373' post='2734358']
Pubs are dying.... Live scene is dying.
[/quote]

Not from where I'm stood as I continually keep saying.

Maybe crap pubs and unentertaining bands are having problems, but compared with what the live music scene was like for me in the 80s and 90s getting decent gigs has never been easier.

[Norris]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1427800694' post='2734326']
Is this something mainly affecting covers bands then?
[/quote]

Not ours. We are probably busier this year than we ever have been. Venues come & go. The ones that survive are the ones that ensure they have quality bands (-> decent money) on a regular basis (-> commitment).

[RockfordStone]

round my area (cambridge) its not so much the scene but the venues. since i have been here several decent sized venues have been sold off to be turned into trendy wine bars or food providing pubs and as such the venue element of them has been lost... there are enough bands around to fill venues every night of the week and people do go to shows, its just finding places to play them

[crez5150]

I think it depends on what you consider the live scene to be in your area...... Here in Essex on the cover band scene, it's full of what I like to call the 'Macdonalds Menu' (there's one on every corner) bands...... Same set up of 4/5 piece bands all playing rock/classic rock/Indie.... all playing very similar sets with the majority playing a large chuck of the same songs....

I would love to go out and watch live music locally but none of it appeals to me and its all the same.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1427801304' post='2734338']
Not mine.....gigs when we want them in our neck of the woods
[/quote]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1427802760' post='2734368']
Not ours. We are probably busier this year than we ever have been. Venues come & go. The ones that survive are the ones that ensure they have quality bands (-> decent money) on a regular basis (-> commitment).
[/quote]

Then I think it's probably down to how entertaining your band is an how proactive you are about getting gigs.

I had to quit my covers band a year ago because the Terrortones were far more busy and after expenses had been deducted were actually getting better paying gigs. However that might have down more to general inertia and poor business sense on the part of the covers band than anything else.

[the boy]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1427802636' post='2734364']


Not from where I'm stood as I continually keep saying.

Maybe crap pubs and unentertaining bands are having problems, but compared with what the live music scene was like for me in the 80s and 90s getting decent gigs has never been easier.
[/quote]
I'm not disagreeing with you. I meant that if the pubs are dying so too will the live scene. Obviously this changes from region to region. Good luck if you are having a successful time at the moment and long may it last.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1427805259' post='2734418']
I'm not disagreeing with you. I meant that if the pubs are dying so too will the live scene. Obviously this changes from region to region. Good luck if you are having a successful time at the moment and long may it last.
[/quote]

We play all over the country and there are plenty of paying gigs available to us.

I think that people expect the gig venues to remain the same over time, but that simply not what happens.

I can only speak for what has happened here in Nottingham, but only a couple of the venues that were active back in 1980 when I moved here still put gigs on, and even just 10 years ago the venues were completely different ones to those operating today. Venues come and go, it's whether the overall gigging scene gets bigger that matter and here there's certainly far more, and far better opportunities for bands than any time I in the past as far as I recall.

[Bassjon]

Nottingham is still thriving but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that some of it is to do with the bands themselves...(hear me out!)

A lot of muso's are forgetting what they are up against. People go out and want to dance to non-stop music with deep bass like your clubbers and people who only know music from the charts. But every time I go to a local gig its full of tired musicians who have put no thought into their image or setlist and just play' Smoke on The water' and 'Basket Case' in solid workman like fashion while staring at their fretbords with long gaps between songs so the guitairist can tune up and the drummer can sip his pint! Its crap and boring and no-one cares anymore (I do - but i'm talking about the general public here). We all need to go through this to cut our teeth and get good but where are the guys covering modern songs?? Its just not exciting to watch anymore. Sad but true.

[ubit]

I agree with the statement that bands need to be good, but I know we are good and I know a couple of the other local bands are good too. Even so, bars are just not entertaining live music round here. It's like they think they will get enough folk in with a sh*tty disco, so why pay more for live music.
Long gaps between songs is my hate and I continually battle with a guitarist with OCD., so I suppose we can be guilty of that, but I don't think that is the reason for the lack of gigs.certainly not in this town .

[JTUK]

If a LL and Venue are doing ok with their model, then fair play, you can't really expect them to do otherwise.
If they get numbers in and it only costs them £200, then they'll continue to do that
It is no good bands charging £350 and drawing in 10 more punters as that is only going to re-affirm to the LL
that on a poor night, he'd rather pay £200 out tham £350 so it becomes a game of risk..

Bands have to take responsibility and some have gotten lazy and still insist on the LL taking all the risk
and they just turn up and play.
I'd have more time for bands that said bottom figure is £200 but top line is £350 if we do well enough...but they
don't so pubs tend to pick the mean figure as the fee and operate on a win-some, lose-some, basis.
If bands are confident they are worth £350, then stick to it..the market will determine whether you get it more than
a few times..
And then..it depends how much you trust the pubs..
I know 3 pubs round here that, in recent times put ( 3 ) acts on for fees between £600 and £5k...
The latter is unbelievable but people are sure the pub did indeed pay that..

I certainly think more pubs would entertain £600-1500 on ticketed sales.. and these pubs that I know are booking
at those fees have sold out weeks in advance.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Bassjon' timestamp='1427806633' post='2734449']
Nottingham is still thriving but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that some of it is to do with the bands themselves...(hear me out!)

A lot of muso's are forgetting what they are up against. People go out and want to dance to non-stop music with deep bass like your clubbers and people who only know music from the charts. But every time I go to a local gig its full of tired musicians who have put no thought into their image or setlist and just play' Smoke on The water' and 'Basket Case' in solid workman like fashion while staring at their fretbords with long gaps between songs so the guitairist can tune up and the drummer can sip his pint! Its crap and boring and no-one cares anymore (I do - but i'm talking about the general public here). We all need to go through this to cut our teeth and get good but where are the guys covering modern songs?? Its just not exciting to watch anymore. Sad but true.
[/quote]

I agree that's part of the problem. What I don't see is a solution. If you want the non-stop, bass-heavy club/chart music, the cheapest way of getting it by far is a disco, or the iPad/Singer combo. There are bands that do it, but it's more rewarding for them to play parties and functions. An alternative is a tribute band, but those that are any good can get bigger gigs than pubs.

What you're left with, mostly, is bands like the one I was in. Late 20s singer and late 50s guitarist, bassist and drummer. No one is doing it for money. The singer wants to showcase her voice and impress her mates, the guitarist wants to play SRV solos. We did do some more modern material, (90s/00s) though it was not hugely different from the classic stuff, and it didn't go down as well. Eventually late 20s singer turns 30, gets married and gives up, replaced by early 50s singer and the set drifts to Fleetwood Mac Mk2 and Joe Bonamassa/Beth Hart covers. At which point I gave it up.

The guitarist is now in another band, 3 late 50s with early 20s singer, doing the "blues he's always wanted to do", which of course has been done to death.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1427805687' post='2734428']
We play all over the country and there are plenty of paying gigs available to us.

I think that people expect the gig venues to remain the same over time, but that simply not what happens.

I can only speak for what has happened here in Nottingham, but only a couple of the venues that were active back in 1980 when I moved here still put gigs on, and even just 10 years ago the venues were completely different ones to those operating today. Venues come and go, it's whether the overall gigging scene gets bigger that matter and here there's certainly far more, and far better opportunities for bands than any time I in the past as far as I recall.
[/quote]talking of gigs, I see we're playing the same festival soon, Strummercamp