itsmedunc Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) If in the agreement it stated - Artist to provide backline and 'breakables', what would you think you had to provide and take to the venue? Well I thought, amps, guitars etc and drum accessories. The venue we were supposed to be playing on Saturday actually now expects us to take a full kit and the PA! No problem about the kit but supply the PA for an aftershow party at a festival? The promoter seems a bit miffed that we have cancelled at short notice (as they wont supply the rig) but the truth is we would never have agreed if PA support wasn't provided and it was certainly implied in the agreement. I tried to explain what their agreement stated but they seem oblivious and reckon everyone else has turned up with a kit and a PA in the past? I wonder if bands just carry around a spare rig on the off chance? By the way, we were only getting paid £200! Anybody else had problems with "promoters"? Edited April 13, 2015 by itsmedunc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 PA is not backline, it's more, er... frontline! Breakables - strings, plectrums, drum heads? But I wouldn't expect that to include a PA either! Promoters - in the main, useless tossers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 PA is not backline some "promoters" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Sounds like the agreement was; [i]"You guys provide everything and we pay you next to nothing"[/i] Bravo, for taking a hard line stance and cancelling the gig. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Name and shame I say. Save the rest of us the hassle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul-Fi Steve Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Good on you for cancelling. You'd be lucky to hire a PA/engineer for £200! PA is most definitely not in the 'backline & breakables' categories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 So if they're expecting you to provide the PA, they're also expecting you to be there all day running said PA, all night for the after festival party AND play a gig slot all for £200... ...sod that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Which part of the term 'agreement' don't they understand..? From the Oxford... [color=#800080]4 A coming into accord; an arrangement between two or more persons as to a course of action; a [b]mutual[/b] understanding; a covenant, or treaty.[/color] Edited April 14, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 We've been running into this kind a crap a lot this year, you were right to cancel. We've turned up at events where 'a PA will be provided' to find a power amp and speakers, but no desk, mics, stands or cables. I've since amended our contract to define what a 'full PA' means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1428966608' post='2746618'] Name and shame I say. Save the rest of us the hassle! [/quote] Into The Valley Festival in Clitheroe (Ribble Valley). Venue for aftershow party - The Rose and Crown. Promoter Mr Potter... Edited April 14, 2015 by itsmedunc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1428969490' post='2746640'] So if they're expecting you to provide the PA, they're also expecting you to be there all day running said PA, all night for the after festival party AND play a gig slot all for £200... ...sod that. [/quote] For some reason, he expects every band to bring their own PA that day? A different planet comes to mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 An additional +1 to the sentiment that you were right to cancel that one! On a slightly amusing - but occasionally rather annoying - aside, we have found the definition of "drum breakables" to be quite variable. I think everyone agrees that this includes sticks, snare and cymbals, but it's never clear whether the promoter expects you to bring: kick pedal hi-hat clutch snare stand drum stool. We've turned up at some places where the drumkit has been missing one or more of these. The drum stool is the most worrying one, as we've previously seen it "replaced" with a plastic desk chair or even a beer crate! Last Saturday's gig was really good in the end, but when we got there and found a drum stool held together by mummification in gaffer tape, we decided it was safest if our drummer nipped back to the studio to get his own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well I used to think it was just snare and cymbals, but after a couple of gigs on drums I started to notice how variable it is! Now I take everything except the toms and kick drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1429002926' post='2746793'] Well I used to think it was just snare and cymbals, but after a couple of gigs on drums I started to notice how variable it is! Now I take everything except the toms and kick drum. [/quote] +1. That's exactly what we do. I wonder what the 'promoter' would have thought if we had turned up without the toms and kick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 [quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1429002066' post='2746782'] Into The Valley Festival in Clitheroe (Ribble Valley). Venue for aftershow party - The Rose and Crown. Promoter Ste Porter... [/quote] Nice trick to invite a band to provide the P.A and support all the other acts for £200. Obviously they were going to have to broach the question of P.A being provided somewhere but alarms bells should be ringing here quickly. If a P.A is being provided then we ask for the spec and give them a tech rider as well as you don't want to be involved in finding out these nasty little issues at a late date. I understand that some of these people don't know a P.A from a car stereo but we ask them which company is providing the P.A and we will want to speak direct to them to see what they are bringing. I don't see anything too wrong in doing the gig for £200 as specified and once you found out the true nature of things....which sound like a bunch of amateurs.. you did exactly the right thing and cancelled. The only problem with that is that is that is the type of work you do..then you will most likely encounter more of the same and your name will be brandished about by the useless promoter as unreliable etc etc or worse. But, you are better off out of those sorts of things anyway, tbh. There are instances where the 'promoter/organiser' will need direction and advice, and that is ok, but they also need to take it and be willing to put their hand in their pocket for the event costs. In general, anything done cheap is something to be very wary off, IME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 [quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1429003474' post='2746799'] +1. That's exactly what we do. I wonder what the 'promoter' would have thought if we had turned up without the toms and kick! [/quote] +1 our drummie does the above after being caught out by "drum kit provided just bring breakables" before. One was just shells nowt else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 [quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1429002161' post='2746784'] For some reason, he expects every band to bring their own PA that day? A different planet comes to mind... [/quote] Hmmm. These sort of events are often sponsored by businesses and local grants. I wonder if they got specific sponsorship for a PA... One things for certain though, if each band is bringing its own PA then the audience is going to get very peeved and an 'after gig party' is going to be a miserable affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 Update! They have come up with the money for a PA! Saying that, it's from the lad we always use and we get a ridiculously cheap rate for an excellent rig from him. It would have enlightened them more if they'd paid full whack though! Still, a good result I suppose... I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 [quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1429042235' post='2747363'] Update! They have come up with the money for a PA! Saying that, it's from the lad we always use and we get a ridiculously cheap rate for an excellent rig from him. It would have enlightened them more if they'd paid full whack though! Still, a good result I suppose... I think... [/quote] That's better, provided you aren't paying towards it. Got to say that, as much as I like playing festivals, for £200 I'd expect not to have to worry about anything and have a few lads provided to do the lugging about for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Admiral Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 [quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1429002066' post='2746782'] Into The Valley Festival in Clitheroe (Ribble Valley). Venue for aftershow party - The Rose and Crown. Promoter Mr Potter... [/quote] Not Brian Potter I presume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1429042749' post='2747372'] That's better, provided you aren't paying towards it. Got to say that, as much as I like playing festivals, for £200 I'd expect not to have to worry about anything and have a few lads provided to do the lugging about for me.[/quote] Summerfest here in Milwaukee treats non- headliners very well. You get security, a van picks up the band and your taken to the stage and a second van is provided for your guitars and accessories.You work with pro stage managers as well as pro sound guys. Nice big dressing rooms with food and drink too. Blue Edited April 15, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1429126009' post='2748359'] Summerfest here in Milwaukee treats non- headliners very well. You get security, a van picks up the band and your taken to the stage and a second van is provided for your guitars and accessories.You work with pro stage managers as well as pro sound guys. Nice big dressing rooms with food and drink too. Blue [/quote] That sounds like a well run show.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1429126966' post='2748372'] That sounds like a well run show.. [/quote] It is, We all deserve to get the[i] "Rock Star"[/i] treatment at least once a year. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairychris Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Pulling out was the best choice. The promoter was taking the mick there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 [quote name='hairychris' timestamp='1429183234' post='2748812'] Pulling out was the best choice. The promoter was taking the mick there! [/quote] Pulling out was definitely the best choice but we have a good few people who travel to see us. It had been advertised for a while too, so rather than sit at home, do nothing and disappoint folk we decided to do it. Once we got the PA sorted of course. I spoke to the promoter and it sounds like is heart is in the right place but he is genuinely 'clueless'. He reckons he has put loads of bands on and all of them had brought their own PA. Considering the artist 'agreement', I don't think he even knows what a PA is. It sounds to me that he may have put a few bands on in a couple of pubs before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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