Babicz bridges....true or false ???

[HowieBass]

I reckon the stiffness of that aluminium neck is what gives that Kramer its particular tone and responsiveness - sadly I chose not to buy one back in the 80s and doubt I'll find one at a reasonable price any time soon.

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='Raggy' timestamp='1429264492' post='2749767']
I like them and fit them to most of my P basses,[b] I play like a thug[/b] and they are much stronger than a BBOT, but do not feel they improve tone or sustain (whatever sustain is )
[/quote]

I love the mental image I get from that...brilliant

I can also sympathise with you, my action tends to be quite high, otherwise strings are forever clagging off the pole pieces!

[Qlank]

I replaced the awful bridge on a bass with a Babicz. Sounds a lot better, well, to me. Guitar player at rehearsal asked me why I have so much more sustain than I did before.
Nice and smooth, no sticky out bits.
Ability to lock saddles in place is quite nice.
Bear in mind that I replaced a rubbish bridge not a BBOT though.

[Lozz196]

I`ve not used Babicz bridges but have used Badass & Gotoh bridges. For me they "tidy" up the tone a bit - tighter on the lows and highs, less loose mids. So removing what a Precision does best, but emphasising what a Jazz does best. Saying all that, would I ever hear it in the mix - no way, but I could tell these differences at home practice volume.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

When people change the bridge do they refit the old strings?

Could simply changing the strings be responsible for the perceived improvements of fitting aftermarket parts, or at least prevent anyone from making an accurate before/after comparison?

[Qlank]

Good point Subsonic. I changed strings for a new set and found that I liked the older strings better. Still had life in them, so I put put the old set back on.
Had to change them eventually, they don't last forever, only changed the old strings because the E was getting a bit wooly and losing volume.
Maybe if I just boiled the E from that set I could put them back on.

[tauzero]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1429286357' post='2750083']
Nothing in the instrument makes a single bit of difference to the tone other than pickups and electronics.
[/quote]

Strings?

[tauzero]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1429304372' post='2750356']
same here. I never encountered a bass that made me think "hmmm, sweet, if only it had more sustain..."
[/quote]

I have - one of those Washburn Statuseses which went "plunk plunk plunk".

[mcnach]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1430697258' post='2763857']
I have - one of those Washburn Statuseses which went "plunk plunk plunk".
[/quote]

I don't play any of that new fangled plunk music...

[Twigman]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1429286357' post='2750083']
Nothing in the instrument makes a single bit of difference to the tone other than pickups and electronics.
[/quote]
In that case 2 of my basses should sound exactly the same.
They don't.
Both have babicz bridges
Both have the same Fender original 62 pbass pick up
Both are passive - even wired using the same pots, wire and jack.
They both wear the same strings at the same gauge.

So you are saying they should sound exactly the same?
Far from it.
One has a Status neck, the other a maple and rosewood neck and they sound very very different from each other.

[LayDownThaFunk]

It's like wine - because it's more expensive and because we say it tastes better, it does. Not true.

[Dan Dare]

Gotoh bridges the best value, imho. 201 or 203 (the latter is a heavier duty version of the BBOT). Nicely made and no sharp edges and the cheapfulness is gratifying. Of course, the Snake Oil Custom made from unobtainium is better...

[Conan]

I have no experience of Babicz, but when I swapped the Badass II on my Geddy Lee for a MIM BBOT* (and back again), there was no difference in tone or sustain IMO. I didn't change the strings at the same time...


* Sounds like a Star Wars android...

Edited October 8, 2015 by Conan

[Twigman]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1444247999' post='2881624']
Gotoh bridges the best value, imho. 201 or 203 (the latter is a heavier duty version of the BBOT). Nicely made and no sharp edges and the cheapfulness is gratifying. Of course, the Snake Oil Custom made from unobtainium is better...
[/quote]
I find the saddles on the 201 are way too fat and have to be on the deck to get anything remotely close to a nice action. I had to shim a neck after lowering the saddles to the deck on one bass and even then the action still felt a bit high. When the saddles are on the deck the adjustment screws stick up, are sharp and rip your right hand to shreds if, like me you often find yourself resting the outside of your hand on the bridge,
I loathe the gotoh 201.

[discreet]

That's one of the good things about the Babicz - regardless of how you have it set up, it's very smooth and ideal for palm muting.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1443781660' post='2877616']
In that case 2 of my basses should sound exactly the same.
They don't.
Both have babicz bridges
Both have the same Fender original 62 pbass pick up
Both are passive - even wired using the same pots, wire and jack.
They both wear the same strings at the same gauge.

So you are saying they should sound exactly the same?
Far from it.
One has a Status neck, the other a maple and rosewood neck and they sound very very different from each other.
[/quote]
I don't believe you.

I think it's just a placebo effect because you know the necks are different.

[LayDownThaFunk]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1444308843' post='2882103']

I find the saddles on the 201 are way too fat and have to be on the deck to get anything remotely close to a nice action. I had to shim a neck after lowering the saddles to the deck on one bass and even then the action still felt a bit high. When the saddles are on the deck the adjustment screws stick up, are sharp and rip your right hand to shreds if, like me you often find yourself resting the outside of your hand on the bridge,
I loathe the gotoh 201.
[/quote]
Your action must be like 1mm at the first fret lol.

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1429203118' post='2749223']
My thinking on this is that you want to keep as much of the string vibration stuck inside the strings for as long as possible if sustain is important to you - transmission of energy beyond the fixed ends of a vibrating string, at the nut into the headstock, and at the bridge saddles into the body are, from a physics point of view, just dumping energy into heatsinks. Effectively both nut and bridge should act as mirrors. Bridge rigidity is more important in this context than sheer mass. I also believe that neck rigidity has a big part to play in sustain. Again, all in my humble opinion.
[/quote]
I'm with you on that and that is pretty much Alembic's take on the subject of sustain hence the huge sustain block and machined brass bridge and nut.

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1429286357' post='2750083']
Nothing in the instrument makes a single bit of difference to the tone other than pickups and electronics.
[/quote]

How is that possible when I've read the forum here many times that the tone is in the fingers???...... :-)
I'll get my coat. :-)

[TrevorR]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1429286357' post='2750083']
Nothing in the instrument makes a single bit of difference to the tone other than pickups and electronics.
[/quote]

I've read this comment a lot on forums and it really doesn't make sense to me from a physics and engineering point of view. A bass is a much more complex system than just a wire oscillating between two fixed points being picked up by a magnet and wire coil. The vibrations within the body are so much a part of the finer timbre of the bass. When the string vibrates those vibrations are also transmitted into the body at the bridge and nut. Those will then resonate through the body and influence the movement of all the strings by transmitting vibrations back into them through the nut and bridge.

That won't change the fundamental sound of the string (basically down to the string and pickups/electronics) but it will certainly have a marked effect on the complex vibration patterns in the string. This will, therefore affect the timbre of the string. Now, the body vibrations will be affected by a whole range of factors - shape of body and neck, materials of the body and neck, the material and construction of the bridge and nut, the neck/body join etc etc etc... Hence the differences between different woods in a similar/identical bass design or switching from set to bolt-on to thru neck design. Some resonances will have a dampening effect others an additive effect so these things may affect other physical characteristics such as sustain etc.

Now that may sound far fetched and trying to blind with science gobbledygook but don't under estimate the effects that these sympathetic vibrations and resonances can have on the complex vibrations of the string.

Here's a subtle example. The housing of the clock mechanism isn't moving but one of the weights picks up the vibrations from the mechanism and the pendulum and starts to move in sympathy with it...

http://youtu.be/_aILyKUm4IE

Here's a rather more well known and dramatic example of sympathetic resonance gone bad... Ironically, it's in a bridge...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs

So, will it change the fundamental of any note? Probably not but differences can and will affect the sound/timbre in noticable ways.

[Twigman]

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1444503205' post='2883769']
Your action must be like 1mm at the first fret lol.
[/quote]
I don't think it's quite that high tbh

It's way lower than that. The nut is cut 0.1mm higher than the frets. The relief is a tad under 0.5mm at the 7th fret (capo on 1 finger on 20). The action is a tad under 2mm at the 17th

Edited October 11, 2015 by Twigman

[Wayne Firefly]

So it would seem that on an oscilliscope, tiny variations in waveform can be put in the form of a graph of some kind, and subtle differences pointed out. If you used a tin Fender bridge against the Babicz bridge, put on the same bass using the same strings. Lots of variances there right ?
BUT in the real, actual, working world of sub zero temparatures outside then straight into a hot sweaty venue, sound checking drummers, rushing to set gear up in the dark, tuning, then playing a set of aggressive music, loud guitars, loud fast drums, my attack and distortion coming from the Sans, swirling chaos in motion in the audience, mic stands going over, stage divers, chaos, more chaos, loud, fast, dark, fast, chaos, loud, mic hits you in the mouth, split lip, and so on....
I guess differences in vibration are a moot point.
I guess again I asked a loaded and probably dumb question if brands of gear actually means anything in real terms when what I should actually be doing is playing the damn thing !!!!
The more I see the less I know !!!

[SingleMalt]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1443781660' post='2877616']
In that case 2 of my basses should sound exactly the same.
They don't.
Both have babicz bridges
Both have the same Fender original 62 pbass pick up
Both are passive - even wired using the same pots, wire and jack.
They both wear the same strings at the same gauge.

So you are saying they should sound exactly the same?
Far from it.
One has a Status neck, the other a maple and rosewood neck and they sound very very different from each other.
[/quote]

I would have thought tolerances in manufacturing of pick-ups, pots and caps would make a fairly big difference. I can't remember the numbers but the usual tolerance for pick-up winds, pots and caps is fairly high.

[Twigman]

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1444503205' post='2883769']
Your action must be like 1mm at the first fret lol.
[/quote]

Out of curiosity I measured my action at the 1st fret last night with the feeler gauges.
The result is 0.15mm.
1mm would be impossibly high.

[Paul S]

Related question - how do you pronounce the word 'timbre' A la francais? TAM-ber? 'TIM-ber'? Or anything else?