sshorepunk Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hi Over the last few months Ive moved away from my db750 (after much deliberation) to an amp I've used before, ashdown MK500 (had a JJ previousley, gone red now) Gigged it for the first time on Sunday night and sounded great with my aguilar Db212 Now looking at cab options, I like 4x10's always had them prior to trying a 2x12, that I really like as well, like the punchiness of the DB cabs! Been thinking of two vertically stacked 2x10's at 8ohms each. Like having something a bit closer to my ears rather around the back of my legs! Also gives me the option of running one cab if needed Also needs to be able to accommodate my amp in a rack case I know there is a lot of love for barefaced on here, but looks like my amp might end up making the stack top heavy, also the 2x10 is not 8 ohms Ashdown looks like a good option with their neo cabs, anybody tried those? Another options out there? Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I've been contemplating this set up recently... My only worry is stability, it'd be very tall and thin with a heavy amp on top. Don't reckon it would take much to send the entire thing toppling over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 We designed the Two10 so you'd get that same superior dispersion when horizontal as you'd normally only get when vertical (it has a crossover in there). However if I wanted something punchy I'd rather use our 12XN cabs than the warmer softer sounding 10CR models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I use 2 x Ashdown 2x10 neo cabs stacked vertically For the same reason & I'm very happy with them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 What about the Vanderkley 210mnt. Not completely vertical but width-wise their exactly as wide as my rack mounted amp. Red fronted to go with the amp as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teamcoy Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 [quote name='sshorepunk' timestamp='1430828419' post='2764920'] Hi Over the last few months Ive moved away from my db750 (after much deliberation) to an amp I've used before, ashdown MK500 (had a JJ previousley, gone red now) Gigged it for the first time on Sunday night and sounded great with my aguilar Db212 Now looking at cab options, I like 4x10's always had them prior to trying a 2x12, that I really like as well, like the punchiness of the DB cabs! Been thinking of two vertically stacked 2x10's at 8ohms each. Like having something a bit closer to my ears rather around the back of my legs! Also gives me the option of running one cab if needed Also needs to be able to accommodate my amp in a rack case I know there is a lot of love for barefaced on here, but looks like my amp might end up making the stack top heavy, also the 2x10 is not 8 ohms Ashdown looks like a good option with their neo cabs, anybody tried those? Another options out there? Cheers Tony [/quote] I have one of the Ashdown Neo 210's, I am only through in Leeds, a mile from J28 of M62 if you wanted to come over and try it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 A pair of Berg AE210's sounds huge - too much for me in fact so I only use a single one. Haven't had a chance to try the new CN210 yet but have heard good things from someone I know who's gigging one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebenezer Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I agree with molan, I sometimes stack a pair of berg hs 210s..very good! but most of the time, one is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshorepunk Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Liking the berg option, but a bit more ££ Thanks for the advice Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontalste Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I haven't gigged this set-up yet but my motives for buying it were the same as the op. It took me a while to find the second cab but got there in the end & it's very stable stacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafbass02 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='molan' timestamp='1430906946' post='2765720'] A pair of Berg AE210's sounds huge - too much for me in fact so I only use a single one. [/quote] Seconded from me too, although I run two pretty often. Edited May 8, 2015 by gafbass02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I have a pair of Ampeg SVT210AV cabs, together they're like half of an 810 fridge. I wouldn't want to balance a big amp on top though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshorepunk Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Did the Berg CN's replace the AE's? Then theres the HD's, whats the difference part from the weight from the CN's, anyone A-B'd them? I figured a pair of Berg' 2x10 and one of those little Demeter amps would be a killer rig! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1430833226' post='2764987'] We designed the Two10 so you'd get that same superior dispersion when horizontal as you'd normally only get when vertical (it has a crossover in there). However if I wanted something punchy I'd rather use our 12XN cabs than the warmer softer sounding 10CR models. [/quote] Puzzled! I thought you (among many) always advocated the vertical stacking of drivers as the horizontal was an inferior/flawed design and that the 'science' behind the reason was pretty conclusive. So are you saying that horizontal is as good as vertical... so long as there is a well designed cross-over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1432375946' post='2780927'] Puzzled! I thought you (among many) always advocated the vertical stacking of drivers as the horizontal was an inferior/flawed design and that the 'science' behind the reason was pretty conclusive. So are you saying that horizontal is as good as vertical... so long as there is a well designed cross-over? [/quote] Its multiple signal sources at high frequencies that cause problems with dispersion so yes I imagine the crossover makes a difference. If you were using two of them you'd still want to be stacking them one on top of the other though (but you could use either orientation for the individual cabs). Edited May 24, 2015 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1432426048' post='2781423'] Its multiple signal sources at high frequencies that cause problems with dispersion so yes I imagine the crossover makes a difference. If you were using two of them you'd still want to be stacking them one on top of the other though (but you could use either orientation for the individual cabs). [/quote] Still puzzled as other commercially available horizontal, multi-driver cabs have been singled out as flawed and most have a crossover in them. Not that I am fussed but it seems odd to have had so many years of posts deriding the horizontal alignment of drivers and then along comes a BF cab of the same design. I've no doubt I shall be learning something new re. this matter very shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1432565631' post='2782713'] Still puzzled as other commercially available horizontal, multi-driver cabs have been singled out as flawed and most have a crossover in them. Not that I am fussed but it seems odd to have had so many years of posts deriding the horizontal alignment of drivers and then along comes a BF cab of the same design. I've no doubt I shall be learning something new re. this matter very shortly. [/quote] I think they're using what's referred to as a .5 alignment, where both drivers handle the lows but only one driver gets the upper mids and highs. So in the frequency range where horizontally arranged drivers would affect the dispersion it behaves as a 1x10" cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1432566271' post='2782721'] I think they're using what's referred to as a .5 alignment, where both drivers handle the lows but only one driver gets the upper mids and highs. So in the frequency range where horizontally arranged drivers would affect the dispersion it behaves as a 1x10" cab. [/quote] So if you put two horizontals on top of each other... horizontally, you'd still have an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1432375946' post='2780927'] Puzzled! I thought you (among many) always advocated the vertical stacking of drivers as the horizontal was an inferior/flawed design and that the 'science' behind the reason was pretty conclusive. So are you saying that horizontal is as good as vertical... so long as there is a well designed cross-over? [/quote]It's not a crossover in the usual sense between a woofer and tweeter. Only one of the tens runs in the upper frequencies, so there are no cancellation issues. The two drivers operate in tandem only in the lows, where the wavelengths are long enough that the two drivers will only compliment and never fight each other. Still, if using one you should have it vertical, with the full range driver on the top. When using two they'll work best vertical, mirror imaged, so that the two full range drivers are adjacent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1432566485' post='2782726'] It's not a crossover in the usual sense between a woofer and tweeter. Only one of the tens runs in the upper frequencies, so there are no cancellation issues. The two drivers operate in tandem only in the lows, where the wavelengths are long enough that the two drivers will only compliment and never fight each other. Still, if using one you should have it vertical, with the full range driver on the top. When using two they'll work best vertical, mirror imaged, so that the two full range drivers are adjacent. [/quote] So they are horizontally aligned in the cab but for superior/best results should really be used vertically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1432566639' post='2782727'] So they are horizontally aligned in the cab but for superior/best results should really be used vertically? [/quote]If you put a single cab horizontal the full range speaker is playing to your calves, not your ears. If you stack a pair horizontally that's not bad, but stacked vertically places the uppermost full range driver closer to your ears, which is better. But you want the full range drivers adjacent, if separated you introduce combing and cancellation issues on the vertical plane. That won't bother the audience, being too far away to be affected by it, but it will make what you hear quite different from what they hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1432565631' post='2782713'] Still puzzled as other commercially available horizontal, multi-driver cabs have been singled out as flawed and most have a crossover in them. Not that I am fussed but it seems odd to have had so many years of posts deriding the horizontal alignment of drivers and then along comes a BF cab of the same design. I've no doubt I shall be learning something new re. this matter very shortly. [/quote] Always thought vertical was a myth for low frequencies ( dispersion ) so I found it quite funny to see the argument 'persued' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1432571982' post='2782822'] If you put a single cab horizontal the full range speaker is playing to your calves, not your ears. If you stack a pair horizontally that's not bad, but stacked vertically places the uppermost full range driver closer to your ears, which is better. But you want the full range drivers adjacent, if separated you introduce combing and cancellation issues on the vertical plane. That won't bother the audience, being too far away to be affected by it, but it will make what you hear quite different from what they hear. [/quote] The only flaw being that a pair of such cabs stacked vertically would, by default, have the full range drivers (one from each pair) together as the centre pair of a vertical line of 4. I have this issue with a pair of TC RS 210 cabs whereby I stack the pair vertical BUT this means that the dual centric driver is numbers 2 & 4 if you were to number the drivers 1-4 starting from the bottom; I thereby get the HF driver closer to my ear but paired as you've suggested would give me them in positions 2 & 3... does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1432572615' post='2782831'] Always thought vertical was a myth for low frequencies ( dispersion ) so I found it quite funny to see the argument 'persued' [/quote] If I'm following this correctly we are talking the full range signal passing through the bass guitar cab (either with this .5 driver arrangement only sharing LF or a FR pair with horn/tweeter), so essentially it isn't the LF dispersion that we are only talking about... yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1432572948' post='2782838'] If I'm following this correctly we are talking the full range signal passing through the bass guitar cab (either with this .5 driver arrangement only sharing LF or a FR pair with horn/tweeter), so essentially it isn't the LF dispersion that we are only talking about... yes? [/quote] My feelling would be that Bass gtr frequencies are mostly out of consideration for dispersion... I generally don't buy the whole argument anyway...as bass from a bass cab will get everywhere and altho you might be to the left or right of the cab....you'll still be in front of it ...albeit at an angle so less a factor anyway even if it applied. I do concede bass players have a problem hearing their bass... but I think that is mostly a problem they'll cause with their choice or sound and playing style. I think the stage mix will be for everyone in the band so this obesession for a bass sound that only suits the bass player is one of their own making as far as hearing it is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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