donslow Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'll try and keep this brief to prevent me rambling My bass started life as a vintage modified precision, new wiring, pickups, bridge, neck, machine heads, pick guard later it's near perfect, with one exception, still don't like the colour, Have just spent the last 5 days stripping the paint to bare wood, sanding and refinishing with wood dye, time to put it back together........neck on, pickguard and all electrics on, bridge on I restring it and the strings are flat against the fretboard on all frets, saddles raised as far as and still same problem, check the neck relief and is exactly how it was before taking it off, in order to gig with it I currently have 4 pieces of thick card (came from a whiskas box if it helps) underneath the bridge to raise it enough to get a decent action out of it Long story short, the bridge appears too low for the neck now there is no paint on the body, is this a common thing?! Has anyone else come across this problem? What are my options to repair? If it helps the bridge is a gotoh 203 "OEM Style" bridge Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'd try longer saddle screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I very much doubt there was the equivalent of four card thicknesses of paint you removed, but if you're sure you've reassembled everything properly then your only real alternatives are to deepen the neck pocket or get a shim underneath the bridge. If you go for the shim option, don't forget to make sure that the grounding wire under the bridge is above the shim so it can make contact with the bridge or you'll get a whole pile of other problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 The problem sounds like the neck angle. Assuming you've put everything back together properly, I'd check that the neck is sitting correctly in the pocket. If that's ok I would put a shim in the neck pocket close to the open end. That will angle the whole neck up slightly, raise the strings and allow you to lower the saddles. No need to shim the bridge normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I had the same problem. A shim under the neck altered the angle of the neck enough to sort the action out. My particular shim was a cut up credit card which was thick enough to do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks for the advice gents, longer saddle screws could be an option, Gjones, where in the pocket did you put the shim? As previously mentioned towards the open end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1431125489' post='2768141'] I'll try and keep this brief to prevent me rambling My bass started life as a vintage modified precision, new wiring, pickups, bridge, neck, machine heads, pick guard later it's near perfect, with one exception, still don't like the colour, Have just spent the last 5 days stripping the paint to bare wood, sanding and refinishing with wood dye, time to put it back together........neck on, pickguard and all electrics on, bridge on I restring it and the strings are flat against the fretboard on all frets, saddles raised as far as and still same problem, check the neck relief and is exactly how it was before taking it off, in order to gig with it I currently have 4 pieces of thick card (came from a whiskas box if it helps) underneath the bridge to raise it enough to get a decent action out of it Long story short, the bridge appears too low for the neck now there is no paint on the body, is this a common thing?! Has anyone else come across this problem? What are my options to repair? If it helps the bridge is a gotoh 203 "OEM Style" bridge Thanks in advance [/quote] Is the neck angle correct? If there was a shim in the neck pocket and misplaced it, the tiny difference in neck angle can cause that. I'd try a shim anyway (I use thin cardboard, from a business card or similar, or a bit of sandpaper, typically), increase ever so slightly the neck angle, and see whether that allows you to set up the bass nicely. It'll probably fix the problem at the saddles too. Edited May 9, 2015 by mcnach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 If it was alright before, then it should be OK now. My guess is the neck isn't seated in the pocket correctly. If the paint was seriously thick, then you could use a card shim under the bridge. But we must be talking about 5-7mm of paint!! Sorry, I don't buy that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Advice heeded gents, will have to check the neck in the pocket, as this isn't something I've come across before, how do I check the angle of the neck is correct to determine, if a shim is needed, where to place it in the pocket? Is there a tried and tested way?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1431145750' post='2768217'] If it was alright before, then it should be OK now. My guess is the neck isn't seated in the pocket correctly. If the paint was seriously thick, then you could use a card shim under the bridge. But we must be talking about 5-7mm of paint!! Sorry, I don't buy that. [/quote] Your probably right, theres probably just a malfunction in rebuilding, just have to find out where.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Saddles as low as they can be and strings are too high then shim at the closed end, saddles as high as they can be and strings too low then shim at the open end and its trial and error as to thickness of shim. Longer bridge saddle grub screws isn't good as you run the risk of bending the longer intonation screw as you raise the saddle higher than it was designed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 [quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1431165251' post='2768383'] Saddles as low as they can be and strings are too high then shim at the closed end, saddles as high as they can be and strings too low then shim at the open end and its trial and error as to thickness of shim. Longer bridge saddle grub screws isn't good as you run the risk of bending the longer intonation screw as you raise the saddle higher than it was designed to be. [/quote] Thank you for the time and advice, will rip it apart today, put the bridge back on the body and give the open end a shim, see how we get on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) I'd suggest a careful dissassembly - followed by checking the seating of the bridge - and how the neck sits in the neck pocket. When screwed tightly onto the body the top of the frets / fingerboard should line up with the top of the saddles at their lowest adjustment - give or take a mm or three! If things still aren't working out - try adding a thin shim at the headstock end of the neck pocket to tilt the neck "forward" or towards the front side of the instrument. This should angle the neck to better line up lower on the bridge with the bridge - allowing plenty of adjustability in the saddles. When I say thin - I mean 1 mm or less, you can add more if needed but you usually won't need to. Here's a thread to read: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/49897-how-to-shim-a-neck/page__hl__shim"]http://basschat.co.u.../page__hl__shim[/url] Hope it helps. P.S. that thread has good pics of the opposite problems (bridge saddles not adjusting low enough). EDIT: Oh! I saw this a long time ago and found it interesting reading, for your consideration, may I present: [url="http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/19686-guitar-shop-101-how-to-shim-a-bolt-on-neck"]http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/19686-guitar-shop-101-how-to-shim-a-bolt-on-neck[/url] Edited May 9, 2015 by PlungerModerno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Thank you for those links, very helpful, is it safe to assume that if shimming the headstock end of the neck pocket, the shim would go under the "top" screws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1431192347' post='2768695'] Thank you for those links, very helpful, is it safe to assume that if shimming the headstock end of the neck pocket, the shim would go under the "top" screws [/quote] Yes, If by the "top" screws you mean the screws nearest the headstock. If you put the shim in the wrong end it will make the alignment even worse, so I doubt it'll be a problem for long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, I meant the end nearest the headstock but there isn't much room above the screws (to the top/end of the neck pocket/body) so would a shim just under those screws work the same or should I make a really shallow shim for above them Hope that makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 I guess trial and error be the key here?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Plan A: Pictures would help with diagnosis. I suggest remove shims and string bass up to tune. Take pictures of string height and steel ruler at 12th fret. Saddle screws at min and max height. This gives a starting point. See where we go from there. Plan B: - where are you? someone on here who knows about setups may be willing to take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero9 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Might seem a silly question, but how did you put the neck back on? I would take the neck off, then tightly push it into the pocket. Keep the neck tightly clamped into the pocket (use a clamp if you can get hold of one), and put the neckplate and screws back in. Also check the back of the heel of the neck, to ensure there aren't any bits of wood from the screw holes which prevent it seating properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 [quote name='3below' timestamp='1431196946' post='2768766']...Plan B: - where are you? someone on here who knows about setups may be willing to take a look. [/quote] Whilst wholeheartedly approving the general trend of this topic, may I be allowed to underline the usefulness of filling in one's location in one's profile..? There are BCers all over the country and beyond, and very often a meeting between 'neighbours' can solve issues very simply. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Put a shim at the open (headstock) end and if the neck screws are in the way simply cut your shim to fit around them. An old credit card is the max thickness you should start with. Thinner is better. Seriously, don't worry, it's easy to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I have to agree with Dad. There's a lot of talk here about shims. But if the bass didn't need a shim with paint, then it shouldn't need one now. I'd be happy to take a look if I lived in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 As has been suggested, you have some options as to how to get a shim in the correct location . . . I used a drop of superglue and a sharp knife to shape shim material (card and wood veneer), with reasonable success. Of course a nail, drill or other tool will make the required hole. Depending on the material the screw will go right through without noticing - obviously not possible with a thicker shim or one made with a super tough material! Depending on the shim thickness and the shape of the neck pocket - the amount of area the shim should cover can be fine tuned to produce a stable fit. I find sanding the shim to a wedge shape makes for the best fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Gentlemen, thank younger all your advice so far, it is all well heeded Should be able to squeeze an hour free time today so I'm gonna take my bass apart and try it with a shim in the top of the neck pocket, see how we get on, will obviously report my success / disaster here hahaha Thank you again so far for all the advice Oh........and I am Essex based.... Edited May 10, 2015 by donslow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 When you are securing the neck to the body make sure that the screws pass through the body without catching. They should be a tight fit but the thread should not catch. If the screws do catch on the body this can cause you to create a gap between the neck and body because the screws can be screwed tight up to the end in the body wood, but only part way into the neck wood. The resulting gap is then like a shim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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