Barefaced dilemma - Retro vs Compact UPDATED

[Jenny_Innie]

I'm on the horns of dilemma.

I had a Barefaced Compact (Gen 2 1x15") - loved the sound but missed a bit of definition in a live gig. Still got it.

I bought a Barefaced Retro Two10 (12 Ohm) - loved the sound, not loud enough by itself and missed the 15" thump.

I bought another Barefaced Retro Two10 - (4 Ohm this time and had the other one factory converted to 4 Ohm as well). Ran them together using a factory-supplied serial cable - loved the sound, well loud enough, looks way prettier than anything ever. Very happy. Also, each one is capable of gigging by itself. Plenty loud enough.

However, I've now played a couple of gigs with a mate's band using the Compact sitting on one of the Retro Two10s - and it was sound heaven. Proper loud enough, deeeeeeep lows from the 15" - bit of grain stuck in there from the 2x10. I think this is my sound.

I haven't got the space for three cabs (parents insist my stuff lives in my bedroom) - plus I'll be going to uni soon where space will be at a premium. One of them has to go.

It's just a dilemma.

[attachment=193413:Barefaced.jpg]

Edited July 1, 2015 by Jenny_Innie

[Roland Rock]

Sounds to me like it's a no brainer - if your favourite sound was the 210 plus compact, and that was loud enough, then ditch one of the 210s.

Actually, sell one 210 and the compact, then buy a Gen3 compact with silver cloth grille - smaller and better and looks the part. Believe me, those Gen3 12" drivers go very, very low.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Roland Rock

[Conan]

It's a nice dilemma to have... but clearly still frustrating!

If you want the two cabs to match (the photo above implies that you don't) then the choice is clear - sell the Compact.

But it sounds like you really like the sound of the Compact! So moving one of the 210s would make more sense in that case. Bear in mind that the new G3 Super Compact has a different driver and a different sound to the one you currently have...

Just a word of warning though - check whether your gear will be insured while at Uni. It may not be.

[Jenny_Innie]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1433239493' post='2789152']
Sounds to me like it's a no brainer - if your favourite sound was the 210 plus compact, and that was loud enough, then ditch one of the 210s.

Actually, sell one 210 and the compact, then buy a Gen3 compact with silver cloth grille - smaller and better and looks the part. Believe me, those Gen3 12" drivers go very, very low.
[/quote]

Yeah - and it might save some space too. I'd have to A/B it with the Gen 2 1x15" though. I know the technical theory is that lows ain't related to the size of speaker - but that Barefaced 1x15 is a gem. Haven't heard lows like that from anything else.

[Lozz196]

From the description "I think this is my sound" it has to be keep one Retro 210 and the Compact. You could also look at finding somewhere that could make silver cloth to go over the metal grill of the compact, making it all look more in keeping with each other. Pretty and tone-heaven, what more could you ask for

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1433240346' post='2789173']
From the description "I think this is my sound" it has to be keep one Retro 210 and the Compact... [/quote]

+1

[Matt P]

have you tried the Gen 2 midget? it pairs wonderfully with the original compacts and might give you the definition that you need, really small as well, perfect for tiny stages in small clubs. The midget+compact stack is a real wonderful rig ( I would have gone for it but there wasn't quite enough space In the spare room)

Matt

[alexclaber]

The irony is that the Retro Two10 goes lower than the old 15" Compact. But the Compact (like its replacement the Super Compact) has more output in the ~60Hz region.

[Conan]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1433244056' post='2789240']
The irony is that the Retro Two10 goes lower than the old 15" Compact. But the Compact (like its replacement the Super Compact) has more output in the ~60Hz region.
[/quote]

Isn't that part of the problem Alex? What many people mean by "goes lower" is that they hear more "bass" - when sometimes the frequencies that they are hearing are closer to low midrange... (not that 60Hz falls into that category of course).

[Jenny_Innie]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1433244056' post='2789240']
The irony is that the Retro Two10 goes lower than the old 15" Compact. But the Compact (like its replacement the Super Compact) has more output in the ~60Hz region.
[/quote]

Yeah, I get that. But my perception is, when I A/B them, that one over their sounds deeper than that one over there. Maybe its my perception of "deeper" and "lows"? Together though, they are an awesome pair.

[Kirky]

Just out of interest, are you running (your perfect sound set, that is) a 4 ohm Retro 210 with an 8 ohm Compact?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1433244783' post='2789253']Yeah, I get that. But my perception is, when I A/B them, that one over their sounds deeper than that one over there. Maybe its my perception of "deeper" and "lows"? Together though, they are an awesome pair.[/quote]

It's probably partly your perception and partly what your TC amp is doing - they have a fairly steep roll-off in the lows.

[Jenny_Innie]

[quote name='Kirky' timestamp='1433244848' post='2789256']
Just out of interest, are you running (your perfect sound set, that is) a 4 ohm Retro 210 with an 8 ohm Compact?
[/quote]

Please don't tell me you're thinking of going techno-babble with how that's an incorrect configuration. If so, then I'm not all ears. That's 2.66666667 (or so) of a load which my RH750 and RH450 can handle.

Sounds spot on to me.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jenny_Innie

[cheddatom]

if it's the hump at 60Hz you like then an EQ pedal or the like could do that. Maybe try boosting this frequency with your 2 2x10s plugged in, see if you can get the sound you like

[Conan]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1433247975' post='2789319']
Please don't tell me you're thinking of going techno-babble with how that's an incorrect configuration. If so, then I'm not all ears. That's 2.66666667 (or so) of a load which my RH750 and RH450 can handle.

Sounds spot on to me.
[/quote]
Ha! You tell 'em Jenny However, it does mean that there will be more voltage ("power/juice/sound...") going to the 210 than the Compact so you will probably be hearing more of the 210 to a certain extent. But if the balance is right then this is not a problem in itself.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1433239016' post='2789146']
I'm on the horns of dilemma.

I had a Barefaced Compact (Gen 2 1x15") - loved the sound but missed a bit of definition in a live gig. Still got it.

I bought a Barefaced Retro Two10 (12 Ohm) - loved the sound, not loud enough by itself and missed the 15" thump.

I bought another Barefaced Retro Two10 - (4 Ohm this time and had the other one factory converted to 4 Ohm as well). Ran them together using a factory-supplied serial cable - loved the sound, well loud enough, looks way prettier than anything ever. Very happy. Also, each one is capable of gigging by itself. Plenty loud enough.

However, I've now played a couple of gigs with a mate's band using the Compact sitting on one of the Retro Two10s - and it was sound heaven. Proper loud enough, deeeeeeep lows from the 15" - bit of grain stuck in there from the 2x10. I think this is my sound.

I haven't got the space for three cabs (parents insist my stuff lives in my bedroom) - plus I'll be going to uni soon where space will be at a premium. One of them has to go.

It's just a dilemma.

[attachment=193413:Barefaced.jpg]
[/quote]

So to summarise: the compact/retro is "the sound" but the stacked retros are eye candy ... I guess it depends on your priority.

[Jenny_Innie]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1433249415' post='2789349']
if it's the hump at 60Hz you like then an EQ pedal or the like could do that. Maybe try boosting this frequency with your 2 2x10s plugged in, see if you can get the sound you like
[/quote]

Alex said that, not me ..... but I take your point. Good call. I'll get the Retros together in a stack again and fiddle with the frequencies about there and report back.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1433251801' post='2789395']Alex said that, not me ..... but I take your point. Good call. I'll get the Retros together in a stack again and fiddle with the frequencies about there and report back.[/quote]

The other thing is the Compact doesn't have a hump in the 120Hz region like the Two10, so an alternative approach is to cut at about 120Hz and boost lower down. I know the TC head has a lot of tweakery available so if the midrange/treble tone from the Two10 is what you like then all it comes down to is tailoring the bottom end, which is a simpler thing as it really comes down to amp power and cab volume displacement and you have plenty of both.

[Kirky]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1433247975' post='2789319']
Please don't tell me you're thinking of going techno-babble with how that's an incorrect configuration. If so, then I'm not all ears. That's 2.66666667 (or so) of a load which my RH750 and RH450 can handle.

Sounds spot on to me.
[/quote]

Ha ha no technobabble - I'm not qualified. I have 2 x 8ohm Compacts and the set-up you describe sounds worth investigating. I'm not particularly looking to change anything but you know how GAS gets hold of you...

[Jenny_Innie]

[quote name='Kirky' timestamp='1433274472' post='2789732']
Ha ha no technobabble - I'm not qualified. I have 2 x 8ohm Compacts and the set-up you describe sounds worth investigating. I'm not particularly looking to change anything but you know how GAS gets hold of you...
[/quote]

Oops. Sorry. Getting defensive there. I forgot myself and thought I was in one of those "tone is in the hands isn't" debates again. Must be exam fever.

I think if I go down this route, I might look at trying to find a Gen 2 Compact with a silver cloth grill.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jenny_Innie

[Kirky]

Forgiven. I have 3 kids currently in the throws of exam fever - I recognise the symptoms.

[smaz]

I have a Gen3 Compact (8ohm) & a Retro 210 (12ohm). Absolute killer combination.

I've considered selling the compact & getting a second 210, but I've also considered selling the 210 & getting a second compact. I think I'll stick with what I've got - more flexibility for when I need a single cab.

One thing I did notice though, with the difference in ohms:

My orange TH500 drives both cabs equally well when using both together.
However I tried a Mesa Walkabout Scout & found that it didn't drive the 210 as well as the compact, so when used together the 210 was a little weak.

[Bassman Steve]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1433275054' post='2789740']
I think if I go down this route, I might look at trying to find a Gen 2 Compact with a silver cloth grill.
[/quote]

If you are saying that you might want to look for a Gen 2 Compact, I am guessing you have a metal grill one. I am looking to do the complete opposite (find a metal grill Compact in exchange for a silver cloth one). Drop me a line if you decide to go down that route and we can 'talk turkey'. As you're in Dorset it wouldn't be difficult to get to you.

[Roland Rock]

Sounds like a result.

Just on a pedantic note, this is a grill:
[Img]http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg580/christopher_brown14/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-06/zoom_Tecnoinox_Exploit_QSEF2_electric_salamander_grill_zpsuq9vvlwe.jpg" class="ipsImage" />

This is a grille:
[Img]http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg580/christopher_brown14/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-06/LRgrid0001_zpspzavsyoi.jpg" class="ipsImage" />
☺

[Bassman Steve]

I know, I wanted a Compact with a microwave on top. What did you think I meant?